Balance Suggestions

[Ravage]

Okay.. soo.. fRO mechanics has its minor flaws in balance. We are all aware that fRO is highly damage oriented. However damage isnt the only aspect to be considered in balancing. I believe we can enjoy better gameplay while achieving balance when we look at more aspects of the game that can be changed. I would like the goal of this topic to be overall balance for forsaken RO. But what is balance and how do we achieve it?

Balance is when there is an equal result from a number of different subjects being compared. We can tweak variables of the subjects to achieve equilibrium. A good example in balance of mechanics is how elements work. Fire and wind properties dont have the same effect on water property. Job classes are the same way, you cant go head to head against every class with 1 job. Each job class needs a weakness, were kind of throwing off the mechanics of the game a bit much with all the buffs for balance.

Lately i have been seeing many stalkers. They're semi-OP.. for what? They were under-powered before because of FCP is easier to farm on our pserver. Instead of tweaking FCP, stalkers got wayyy too many buffs ever since they could start copy trans skills. A stalkers main advantage in battle was strategic skills. It can evade attacks with effective backslide and cloaking techniques similar to sin; it doesnt need out rageous attack because it makes up by stripping before attacking. Already having the trans skills and then adding defense is a bit much. Completeley different mechanics than what their skill set is for. Currently they're just like a sneaky long ranged paly?

It leads me to believe that FCP just lasts too long for how we play on fRO. An average battle doesnt outlast the 10 minute duration of FCP. Hence the FCP skill being abused by individuals laddering. We rely less on biochemists when playing. Heck, when did u last see a biochem active in battle? How is it right that having a slave on alt+tab guarantees a win against a stripper(stalkers)? Shortening FCP's duration to 3-5 minutes is fair. instead of having what may seem to be un-ending FCP buffs or no chance for strip at all. Also toning down offense for stalkers in return would be good.

A shorter duration FCP would also mean more people relying on active biochems support. However it also means we would need more FCP bottles. Making FCP bottles a farmable monster drop like ygg would be cool. Put more use to all the for_fild and cute fRO custom monsters!

Also... The forsaken elite weapons were close to perfect, where did all these rediculous buffs come from with valk blessings? Some dont even make sense.. Strip for sniper? uhmm, how does that even compliment sniper? Strip only works within 2 cells.. Snipers can use strip against melee or alot of reducs maybe as a last resort, but thats not complimenting sniper.. Doing that will end up in a worse situation. Sniper has no place being 2 cells within an attacker. Arrow repel, arrow shower, phantasmic arrow traps etc all knock back and keep distance "hint, hint"? A sniper's disadvantage is when it cant increase distance, like RSX users or other long ranged attackers. Recoil from getting hit also keeps snipers from moving away. Strip should be replaced with endure for sniper sb. It would only affect the survivability of snipers that it still lacks in a very small way.

Anyways, feed back on how you think these changes would affect our growth is appreciated.

Edited November 1, 2010 by Ravage

[Xtopher]

Well, I have mixed thoughts about this.

I've always been for boosting a classes core advantages instead of adding random/ridiculous buffs.

From what I've seen anyone melee character that fights a Sniper with Valk weap + Friggs shield will need FCP or they will be destroyed via reflected strip.

And about the FCP duration.... I main Stalker/Priest and I'll tell you that when you fight with Stalker you'll usually only enjoy one victory until the opponent returns with FCP... then it justs turns into the Stalker backsliding/hiding and doing comparably low ranged damage. I can pull a duel out to over the 10 min FCP limit but if I do they just warp. I feel that this wont change by shortening the FCP time, you'll just make people have to warp away and get FCP more often... they'll still always have it but it'll be more annoying.

One thing to remember though: When you're stripped you're virtually useless. Almost no one can still manage to survive much less win a duel if they're full stripped... So I completely understand the opposition to this.

I think giving Snipers something like Sight/Endure is more relevant than strip but the strip feature was something that was really pushed for by the community.

Edited November 1, 2010 by Xtopher

[L2Aim]

» Countering the warping is doable by moving PvP to the PvP rooms & WoE only.

Though majority of the server doesn't want this system,

so it will render the shorter FCP time somewhat useless in that specific scenario.

However, it will increase the biochemist it's utility during WoE, GvG and real PvP fights inside the PvP room.

Decreasing the FCP time is a very decent suggestion that wouldn't hurt the game-play too much.

» Allowing FCP bottles to drop from monsters will undo the previous suggestion's usability.

The current amount of bottles that are available outlasts the demand by far,

a possible future suggestion could be to alter the drop rate of the ingredients when the demand is 2-3 bigger than the availability.

Making FCP bottles drop from custom monsters would have a negative effect on the current game play.

I think this suggestion should be rejected.

» Giving snipers endure is a fairly tactical move to enhance their movement, mainly in close combat.

The only problem is that stripping used to be (weapon)range(d) and I personally was using it as one of my combat strategies to take out targets.

Your suggestion is a viable one as it already is possible to strip, but not to get away from stun lock situations as soon the opponent wears push back disabling items/cards.

I might be repeating myself here, but the only problem is that the stripping isn't weapon range any more, but a default range (2 tiles).

Giving the new Sniper Soaring Bird endure instead of stripping is a good suggestion, and it would be very welcome to reinstate the ranged stripping on Snipers.

I can't say much about Stalkers currently, as you didn't really state any suggestion how to alter their game play.

This is my vision about your suggestions, not criticizing or praising them, just showing what I think what would be fair to the community.

L2Aim

[Rayray]

Stalker is fun until the enemy get fcp. I think it is a fair trade that Stalkers would win if the enemy do not have fcp. To be honest, I'd rather have fcp like EDP, where if you die, the buff stays until the duration is off, but give it a lesser time like 3mins.

On making it drop like yggs, NO. It is a fair market for fcp and if we do that, we kill the economy.

I do not think toning down the offense of stalkers is needed but rather the defense(reducts) of stalkers should be toned down. With the addition of Friggs King shield and the donation bow and other reduct items, stalkers got way too much reductions in my opinion.

I'd rather have the ranged strip work again, but we cannot, I think. SO endure is a viable option for that. But then again, I really am against giving other classes skills that aren't theirs in the first place except the increase weight limit. Endure is an advantage of another class and I think giving them to a long range class(even if they need to melee to strip) is unfair in my opinion.

[supream]

old stalker soaring(20% or 15% idk) + kings shield and usak(55%)=75% or 70% off the back. new stalker soaring(5% so ive been told) and friggs shield and usak(60%)= 65%. so even with the new shield stalkers dont have as much reduces as they did before. but with the kings shield now they only have 60%. thats without the sgw and poring hat. but even so combat knife + friggs shield + usak + sgw + poring hat + the other middle head gear= 98% reduces. its not 100% but its still not fun for anyone trying to kill them. starts to get cheap over time.

[Ravage]

I understand now what you guys mean FCP bottle drops. We would definitely have too much FCP, but i was only suggesting it just incase decreasing the duration of FCP increased the demand.

My reasons for decreasing the duration of FCP are:

- Make strip a larger threat

- Decrease the advantage of abusing slaves

If the duration were short enough that it ran out while you were battleing they wouldnt be able to log and get more FCP.

On the matter of ranged strip, i believe its gonna give a disadvantage to melee classes. You can position lock characters on 1 cell when they're recoil from getting hit. That renders them sitting ducks waiting to get stripped because they have ineffective options to attack from a distance. With how strip works on bows currently, to use strip, the long range character must go into a disadvantaged situation; it usually results in death more than a win.

My reason for encouraging endure is simply to remedy a normal pserver's flaw. Very similar to how long range class characters had a disadvantage when we could not carry YGG!

On normal rate servers, 195 attack speed barely ever occurs. In these settings where 195 attack speed is rare, characters do not suffer from getting stuck in 1 spot due to recoil of getting damaged. 195 attack speed from everyone thows off how our characters are supposed to move normally. The purpose of recoil when getting damaged is to slow down a moving characte, not completely stop it from moving. Sniper's skills are meant to control the field by utilizing the mechanics of moving around and using traps.

Endure would also in-directly make traps more useful. Since all the nerfs on traps have been implemented, they have become way less used.

Without traps, a sniper is basically an archer.

Without strip, a stalker is basically a thief.

Edited November 2, 2010 by Ravage

[Xtopher]

old stalker soaring(20% or 15% idk) + kings shield and usak(55%)=75% or 70% off the back. new stalker soaring(5% so ive been told) and friggs shield and usak(60%)= 65%. so even with the new shield stalkers dont have as much reduces as they did before. but with the kings shield now they only have 60%. thats without the sgw and poring hat. but even so combat knife + friggs shield + usak + sgw + poring hat + the other middle head gear= 98% reduces. its not 100% but its still not fun for anyone trying to kill them. starts to get cheap over time.

Wow.

The stalker bow was nerfed to 15% reductions... and the new additional 5% from friggs will not stack with the already existing reductions the way that they were stacking before the update. I've confirmed this with Genesis and atm only 3 ppl have Friggs Kings Shield... none of which main stalker... so it's way too early to be complaining about anything...

Sorry if this is offtopic but I just wanted to clear it up.

I also do not agree with ranged strip. Snipers get the highest dex in the game from what I understand. This means that they will almost instantly strip anyone who doesn't have at least 250 dex... and even those other classes with high dex (stalker/clown/gypsie/GS) will be divested very easily after a couple of seconds. Given the mass amounts of damage snipers can put out now I really don't think ranged strip is necessary.

Edited November 2, 2010 by Xtopher

[bankai`]

Wow how did talking about balance turn into buffing sniper, geez another sniper buff suggestion...

I disagree on this btw they don't need it!

[Ravage]

Wow how did talking about balance turn into buffing sniper, geez another sniper buff suggestion...

I disagree on this btw they don't need it!

Lols sniper hater. Do you have any expeirnce playing sniper or are you just getting owned by some? have you even read what the suggestions are in this topic?

Read the discussions, what are you even refering to as "it?"

Edited November 2, 2010 by Ravage

[jorgesilvera]

Originals suggestions:

1-Disagree

2-Agree

3-Disagree

[L2Aim]

Originals suggestions:

1-Disagree

2-Agree

3-Disagree

Would you mind elaborating on this? Because just saying you agree/disagree without further reasoning isn't contributing to the topic.

[jorgesilvera]

Ups here I go.

1- The Fcp is used not onLy for protection from stalker strip , remember that is there exist Drill Katar,Strip cards and WS card and other things (Like all class are related to it)

If you got striped you lose the main set (you got striped you got killed; no defence, no full ASPD, less Hp and ect ect)

2-I would like it more avaliable to newest people.

3-Since Sniper have Arrow Rapel When you got close then they push back you and if you hit just for a while you can get striped (explained on point 1)

Edited November 3, 2010 by jorgesilvera

[Ravage]

Ups here I go.

1- The Fcp is used not onLy for protection from stalker strip , remember that is there exist Drill Katar,Strip cards and WS card and other things (Like all class are related to it)

If you got striped you lose the main set (you got striped you got killed; no defence, no full ASPD, less Hp and ect ect)

2-I would like it more avaliable to newest people.

3-Since Sniper have Arrow Rapel When you got close then they push back you and if you hit just for a while you can get striped (explained on point 1)

1 - Since FCP affects more than just stalker's strip, your saying it affects other classes' strategies as well? That supports my point in balance for characters strategies against people abusing FCP's duration. A short duration will allow a window of opportunity to strip instead of none at all.

2 - My first reason for making FCP bottles a monster drop was because i realize how hard it is to farm all the ingredients to make them. I concluded that we may have a shortage, however we currently have a supply. Its kind of crazy to produce the amount of FCP bottles and ingredients for making them that some players are supplying. Kinda fishy, but i know people that are crazy enough to make more than enough for themselves.. Making FCP more available to everyone sounds like a better point of view for balance. It may also provide more ways to earn profit for everyone equally. Since u agree to this suggestion tho, you have to re-evaluate your third arguement.

3 - You have to view the situation as a whole and equal... What would happen after FCP were more available to everyone. If the opponent had FCP, a sniper's strip would be useless. Even now strip is pretty useless since theres plenty of people using FCP besides the fact that it is a flawed for ranged strategies since its range is 2 cells.

Also, long range pushback skills are balanced out by skills to counter them. It is countered by melee classes with already available skills. Thief classes have cloak/hide + backslide. Swordsman classes have charge attack or extreme defense against long ranged damage. There are also items such as strong shield and rsx which further puts pushback to a disadvantage. With pushback countered, snipers are left with strategies using traps which can also be countered normally by skills to break them or take them out.

With that aside were looking at how balanced a sniper is on its offense and defense against other classes. Most people will agree that snipers are strong enough offensively without considereing that sniper class cant EFFECTIVELY use strip. Thats why i think we should just replace the offensive strategy and give snipers more options to use their normal defensive strategies with endure to make up for their vulnerability.

To strip with sniper soaring bow, snipers have to lower attack severly by using normal attack. Furthermore, ranged strip only has a range of 2 cells. On the other hand the melee character is doing max damage further putting snipers in a disadvantaged situation. It does not balance unless you have thana... like nines.. bastard prolly set it up xD

My third suggestion was to replace offense for defense on a sniper. Replacing strip for endure will help with the issue of snipers being vulnerable. Instead of getting stuck taking damage in one spot, the sniper can take a few steps and maybe use a trap instead of turn into a disadvantaged melee character.

Edited November 4, 2010 by Ravage

[jorgesilvera]

1 - Since FCP affects more than just stalker's strip, your saying it affects other classes' strategies as well? That supports my point in balance for characters strategies against people abusing FCP's duration. A short duration will allow a window of opportunity to strip instead of none at all.

2 - My first reason for making FCP bottles a monster drop was because i realize how hard it is to farm all the ingredients to make them. I concluded that we may have a shortage, however we currently have a supply. Its kind of crazy to produce the amount of FCP bottles and ingredients for making them that some players are supplying. Kinda fishy, but i know people that are crazy enough to make more than enough for themselves.. Making FCP more available to everyone sounds like a better point of view for balance. It may also provide more ways to earn profit for everyone equally. Since u agree to this suggestion tho, you have to re-evaluate your third arguement.

3 - You have to view the situation as a whole and equal... What would happen after FCP were more available to everyone. If the opponent had FCP, a sniper's strip would be useless. Even now strip is pretty useless since theres plenty of people using FCP besides the fact that it is a flawed for ranged strategies since its range is 2 cells.

Also, long range pushback skills are balanced out by skills to counter them. It is countered by melee classes with already available skills. Thief classes have cloak/hide + backslide. Swordsman classes have charge attack or extreme defense against long ranged damage. There are also items such as strong shield and rsx which further puts pushback to a disadvantage. With pushback countered, snipers are left with strategies using traps which can also be countered normally by skills to break them or take them out.

With that aside were looking at how balanced a sniper is on its offense and defense against other classes. Most people will agree that snipers are strong enough offensively without considereing that sniper class cant EFFECTIVELY use strip. Thats why i think we should just replace the offensive strategy and give snipers more options to use their normal defensive strategies with endure to make up for their vulnerability.

To strip with sniper soaring bow, snipers have to lower attack severly by using normal attack. Furthermore, ranged strip only has a range of 2 cells. On the other hand the melee character is doing max damage further putting snipers in a disadvantaged situation. It does not balance unless you have thana... like nines.. bastard prolly set it up xD

My third suggestion was to replace offense for defense on a sniper. Replacing strip for endure will help with the issue of snipers being vulnerable. Instead of getting stuck taking damage in one spot, the sniper can take a few steps and maybe use a trap instead of turn into a disadvantaged melee character.

1-Fcp is to CRITICAL, that when the skill is out or you forget to FCP or the skill ran out, you got instantaneous death if striped or if the equip is broken. I say Stay how is.

2-No problem here ^_^

3-No more explanationm needed agree with Endure isntead of Strip

[Xtopher]

Hey Ravage, how about increasing the probability of full strip? Like either increase the % chance or make it so that the opponents dex doesn't effect it. This would buff the skill while leaving FCP alone. This way vit/str stalkers would be able to divest properly, right now if you're a vit/str stalker you can't really divest dex characters... and even if you managed it it only lasts like half a second.

Let me know what you think.

[Adum*]

wouldnt that basically eliminates those stripper build stalkers? Im just saying. Im just watching this topic, wondering how will this suggestion go. So far, I agree on the lowering the duration of FCP, it gives stalker more chance. Besides, full divest/strip is part of the gameplay, why take it out?

Ill put more input as this topic progress.

By the way, this topic seems to be more focused on stalkers vs snipers, but I understand that the topic is fairly fresh -considering the amount of replies.

Well, thats just my thought for now.

[Ravage]

1-Fcp is to CRITICAL, that when the skill is out or you forget to FCP or the skill ran out, you got instantaneous death if striped or if the equip is broken. I say Stay how is.

I understand how critical FCP is against strip. However your missing a key factor in strip's mechanics for balance. Strip doesnt work on the first try against everyone because of dex. Dexterity is what determines the success of strip so that strip strategies would not be overpowered. Balance through stats and builds, not FCP.

However, FCP is easy to abuse in our settings. FCP's duration is so long that there is no window of chance for strip. Therefore STATS do not come into play to balance strip amoung different builds as they should.

Builds make pros, not items.. right?

Hey Ravage, how about increasing the probability of full strip? Like either increase the % chance or make it so that the opponents dex doesn't effect it. This would buff the skill while leaving FCP alone. This way vit/str stalkers would be able to divest properly, right now if you're a vit/str stalker you can't really divest dex characters... and even if you managed it it only lasts like half a second.Let me know what you think.

Ohh, good point! You gave me a lot of food for thought!!!! I started considering builds more.. I think I understand how dex and builds are meant to balance out themselves. Let me explain further... I believe strip is dependent on dex for balance because of every class uses dex but in different ways! If not, strip chance would be determined by items or not at all. If you cant counter a strategy, then it not balanced.

As vit/str you have similar dex as melee builds which would give you the proper success rate intended against them which is pretty good and deadly! However, your strip would suffer against dex characters and be disadvantaged against them in return!

As dex class, you could easily take out other dex classes. However you'd have a weaker build to survive against melee classes in return!

Sounds fair since technically strip = quick death for everyone. Builds vary the most in dex and i believe they utilized that to determine balance. If FCP were not overpowered and abused, we can consider different builds and varying dex and how they determine balance on their own.

Melee characters are who abuse FCP the most too! Making vit/str stalker strategies most affected by it. I believe thats why stalkers were given more reducs to be balanced. They should have fixed a stalkers way to balance the battle with strategy and builds, by fixing FCP instead of looking directly at the damage.

For strip's duration, the lvl 10 strip actually does last very long even on dex characters. I have to sit it out for minutes in for_fild if i dont relog. More than enough time to be killed without gear. Its the level 1 strip thats included in cards and weapons that dont last long cause the duration is meant to also be able to be countered by dex. Strip 1 will work much stronger against melee, and since strip its not ranged it'll stay like that.

P.S. sorry i talk a lot, I just try to be persuasive.

[Ravage]

wouldnt that basically eliminates those stripper build stalkers? Im just saying. Im just watching this topic, wondering how will this suggestion go. So far, I agree on the lowering the duration of FCP, it gives stalker more chance. Besides, full divest/strip is part of the gameplay, why take it out?

Ill put more input as this topic progress.

By the way, this topic seems to be more focused on stalkers vs snipers, but I understand that the topic is fairly fresh -considering the amount of replies.

Well, thats just my thought for now.

I agree, it does seem like stalkers vs snipers! My ideas sprung from how strip in sniper soaring bow is useless. I ended up looking at a bigger picture and it seems to keep getting bigger.. Now almost evey class can be related to this topic easily. A better point of view would be STRIP VS STATS(everyone) and how FCP affects that balance.

And exactly! it would eliminate having to build a stripper! if builds weren't apart of balance, then we'd be pretty SOL..

Edited November 5, 2010 by Ravage

[Rayray]

Making Strip not base its chance on strip would eliminate the advantage of dex type characters against non-dex type characters. So I kinda like it ONLY if it is about the the other strips(strip helm etc) so it doesn't make the stalker overpowered. Again in my opinion, FCP was never overpowered, just that NO OTHER CLASS besides dex type classes(clowns, snipers) would stand a chance against a good stalker without FCP. so, if it is making the duration of FCP less, yes but not by a lot of amount , like 5mins or so would work, anything below that would not be good. but I would like it not to get removed when you die too(like EDP) since it is harder to get than EDP to be honest.

oh on strip, if you got a lot of BASE dex and you got stripped by a stalker with, let's say 150-200 base dex, you can put the items back on almost immediately even if the buff counter is still there. So in essence, Dex types counter strip.

[kuoch]

Did a sniper dagger get put in yet? It sucks having to switch to dagger and being over weight every time you want to switch to it.

[Adamxd]

I disagree with allsugg

[Ravage]

Making Strip not base its chance on strip would eliminate the advantage of dex type characters against non-dex type characters. So I kinda like it ONLY if it is about the the other strips(strip helm etc) so it doesn't make the stalker overpowered. Again in my opinion, FCP was never overpowered, just that NO OTHER CLASS besides dex type classes(clowns, snipers) would stand a chance against a good stalker without FCP. so, if it is making the duration of FCP less, yes but not by a lot of amount , like 5mins or so would work, anything below that would not be good. but I would like it not to get removed when you die too(like EDP) since it is harder to get than EDP to be honest.

oh on strip, if you got a lot of BASE dex and you got stripped by a stalker with, let's say 150-200 base dex, you can put the items back on almost immediately even if the buff counter is still there. So in essence, Dex types counter strip.

Ahhh! You mis-understand why i say FCP is overpowered.... I say FCP is overpowered because it does not allow any window for strip before the stripper runs out of yggs and dies. After the FCP'd character wins, they can log and refresh FCP. It's duration is THAT long. Snipers strip works the same.

Also, thank you for clarifying to me that strip duration is indeed affected by dex. I ended up looking at the equations for strip! Yes Dex can counter strip, but its possible to get more dex to also counter against high dex by sacrificing other stats. If you can strip everyone equally, you can just make a build thats strong against everyone deffensively and utilize strip to win. FCP would be the only variable keeping us alive against stalkers.. Unbalanced and overpowered if FCP were working to allow strip into play...

As for strip's duration, i did the math! Its easy to get enough dex on a non dex build stalker to give you a large enough window of time to kill dex-type characters. Too short of a duration is meant to be a weakness. It can be remedied but with sacrifices as intended for balance. Strip is an advantage that needs a weakness also like everything else... Were limited in stats we can get so they can force onto us the principle of how advantages come with weaknesses to balance out. Thats how strip is kept from being over-powered. You can do the math to determine how much is enough. Thats how making builds always worked. Just because we have a max level of 255, were not immune to how stats affect balance.

I do believe that modifying it's duration and accessibility will affect balance. 5 minutes does sound fair as a shorter FCP duration but I believe tests and research can be done beforehand so they get it right the first time.. After these changed we can somewhat predict how overpowered stalkers may become. Stalkers in general are currently not as reliant on builds and skills as they were originally. They are already being considered as somewhat overpowered because we can throw items at them and make them tanks no matter the build... I'm gonna read the stalker suggestions now..

I disagree with allsugg

Why?

Did a sniper dagger get put in yet? It sucks having to switch to dagger and being over weight every time you want to switch to it.

Nope :(! I think they just added strip to the bow instead.. I know i would rather have the option to make a quad strip shield dagger or something other than whats in the bow....

Edited November 5, 2010 by Ravage

[Rune]

The damage reduction on Stalker's Bow was removed and I believe Stalkers in general are now in a balanced position, I don't see any reason to modify FCP; the weakest link of Stalkers was being over-reliant of their strip, what was fixed with a wide variety of strong skills now copiable and a strong weapon with viable survivability. In a general concept Stalkers are a perfectly fine class currently.

As for sniper's strip, I do believe it comes in handy sporadically, a change for Endure could be more useful, the strip was suggested to a sniper dagger after all.

[Ravage]

The damage reduction on Stalker's Bow was removed and I believe Stalkers in general are now in a balanced position, I don't see any reason to modify FCP; the weakest link of Stalkers was being over-reliant of their strip, what was fixed with a wide variety of strong skills now copiable and a strong weapon with viable survivability. In a general concept Stalkers are a perfectly fine class currently.

As for sniper's strip, I do believe it comes in handy sporadically, a change for Endure could be more useful, the strip was suggested to a sniper dagger after all.

Thats a narrow point of view to understand overall balance. Your only viewing how stalkers are affected and how they are currently being used. Stalkers can be much better, and in return other classes too. Overall balance.

Currently, stalkers are being made similar to LK, sinX, or sniper to be balanced against the respective classes. Exact same principles each time, making everyone atk/reducs based. I also understad that we are being forced to rely on gear for balance on ther server. I always thought builds made pros not donation items. What i mean is that builds, skills and stats are what make balance, not gear.

Now about stalkers being "over reliant on strip"?? Who else would use strip then? Why is rogue/stalker the only class with strip in the skill tree? The idea that stalkers are "over-reliant" on strip is why your overlooking how FCP is invulnerable and under-estimating strip strategies.

Now look at the bigger picture and consider how stalkers are not the only class that use strip. Even in the situation that a class were not reliant on it, its still meant to be an available strategy.

The overall balance of classes is a big circle of advantage VS disadvantage against eachother, similar to elements. Everyone is not meant to be balanced in redux vs attack power because strategies(build/stat/skills) come into play in balance too. Keeping that in mind, have you ever considered that merchant classes are the only class meant to always have the opportunity to be completely immune against strip+breaking? Chemical protection is only available to chemists, and hilt binding to smiths.

Since we can buy FCP bottles easily and make a biochem slave, that eliminates its exclusivity for balance. I believe this is what lead most to underestimate strip on our server. Furthermore, its duration is too long for how long battles last on our server. No windows open soon enough for people to use strip before they die. If your gonna leave it the same, what are your reasons why FCP lasts this long on our server?

Edited November 5, 2010 by Ravage

[nines]

Fcp for 10 minutes does seem a little gay to me but, I also think if we reduce the time it will bring more alchemist characters to the game and we can also make that class more balanced and pvp worthy.

Im on for making fcp time like 5 - 7 minutes.

Snipers, Keep strip. No reason to even argue its good to have for them since that was there main part before and since they don't have range strip its like 1 cell away....why take it away. Stun lock isn't a problem really because guess what snipers have. WE HAVE SKID TRAPS YAYA AND WE CAN USE THEM ON OUR SELFS YAY YAY YAY

=.=

Also add 50k hp to snipers, and make one handed katar and give frigg shield 20% more reducts for sniper and give me a fuckin ion lazer for my damn priest so I can fckin shoop da woop some ones ass