Sniper Suggestions

[Ethereal]

Hay ya'll, so as you know snipers are lacking a lot of essential things that they used to have in the past. They're really under played at the moment, so here are a few things that could help them:

This is a compilation of suggestions that have already been suggested, but I'm just organizing them into one topic. So don't give me this crap about "OMG DIS PERSON ALREADY POSTED DIS!!! QWOR(U@$)(@EUER QQ HERE." Also don't go complaining about "OMG WHAT ABOUT DIS CLASS??????? DIS CLASS IS SO UNDERPOWER!@!#$E!@$()& WAA." This topic is strictly about snipers. I understand that the topic can branch off into other classes with discussion but it has to relate to sniper still.

Things in the compilation:

1. Pouring Cards
2. Ankle Snare
3. Ranged Strip
4. Double Strafe
5. Phantasmic Arrow
6. Elite Sniper Dagger
7. Elite Sniper Bow
8. 1-Handed Bows

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[ 01 ] Pouring Cards

Original Source: Topic by L2Aim. http://forum.forsaken-ro.net/index.php?showtopic=13908

Suggesting: Pouring Cards should be changed to increasing damage for ranged attacks/bows, rather than just double strafe.

Reason: It would definitely help the sniper class overall with skills such as arrow shower and sharp shooting.

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[ 02 ] Ankle Snare

Original Sources: Topic by L2Aim. http://forum.forsaken-ro.net/index.php?showtopic=13908

Topic by kuoch. http://forum.forsaken-ro.net/index.php?showtopic=16638

Topic by sessions. http://forum.forsaken-ro.net/index.php?showtopic=15949

Suggesting: People should not be able to backslide or snap out of traps. Also, they should not be able to break the traps through the skill, Magnum Break.

Reason: Well first of all, they're called TRAPS for a reason. Being able to snap, backslide or magnum out of ankle snare defeats the purpose of trapping in the first place. It makes it extremely hard for snipers if the enemy is always escaping.

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[ 03 ] Ranged Strip

Original Sources: Topic by L2Aim. http://forum.forsaken-ro.net/index.php?showtopic=13908

Topic by kuoch. http://forum.forsaken-ro.net/index.php?showtopic=17115

Suggesting: Make ranged strip work again.

Reason: Ranged strip was one of the things that truly made snipers shine. When this was still around, there were a lot more snipers than there were today. With it, it definitely helped snipers with effective strategies and made them more versatile. It would be useful in WoE (standing far away and stripping someone) and PvP.

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[ 04 ] Double Strafe

Original Sources: Topic by kuoch. http://forum.forsaken-ro.net/index.php?showtopic=17161

Topic by ginkgo. http://forum.forsaken-ro.net/index.php?showtopic=17450

Suggesting: Improve the max Double Strafe damage from 380% to 400%.

Reason: It seems like a lot, but essentially, it's not that much. It's only just a little improvement in the double strafe damage that could possibly help snipers even just a LITTLE bit. With most classes already wearing a shield, their double strafe damage is already reduced by a lot.

Note: The second source says to increase it to 800%, but I say no to it. I just sourced it because it relates to the topic.

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[ 05 ] Phantasmic Arrow

Original Sources: Topic by kuoch. http://forum.forsaken-ro.net/index.php?showtopic=17115

Suggesting: Allow Phantasmic Arrow to pierce through the skill, Pneuma.

Reason: When it comes to a sniper going against a person who has pneuma, they're basically useless. In scenarios like a sniper going against a champion who knows how to Pneuma well, the sniper can't do anything. They become sitting ducks, just awaiting to be killed with TSS (Throw Spirit Sphere). But with Phantasmic Arrow being able to pierce it and push the enemy back 3 tiles, it'll give snipers at least some chance of defeating the enemy.

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[ 06 ] Elite Sniper Dagger:

Original Sources: Topic by L2Aim. http://forum.forsaken-ro.net/index.php?showtopic=13908

Topic by kuoch. http://forum.forsaken-ro.net/index.php?showtopic=16950

Topic by iceydealer86. http://forum.forsaken-ro.net/index.php?showtopic=16796

Suggesting: Create an Elite Sniper Dagger. Effects:

• Enables the user to have Enlarge Weight Limit LVL 10.
• HP Boost + 10%.
• Demi-human reduction +5%.
• AGI and DEX +5~15.

Reason: Snipers only have 1 elite weapon, and that's the bow. They have very little defense due to the fact that the bow is two handed. Also without the ability to use ranged strip, they're forced to GO to the enemy and use a dagger to strip. Essentially, that defeats the purpose of being a ranged sniper. This could be very useful for tanking and for having a non-breakable weapon.

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[ 06 ] Elite Sniper Bow

Suggesting: Boost the Elite Sniper Bow Effects to:

• AGI and DEX +15. (Still the same).
• Double Strafe Damage +10%.
• Sharp Shooting Damage +10%.
• HP Boost+ 5~10%.

Reason: The difference between the Elite Bow and the Rental Bow is far too much of a dramatic difference. The Rental Bow is FAR better than the current elite bow and the damage difference is too much. (It doesn't look a lot, but it definitely builds up.)

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[ 07 ] 1-Handed Elite Sniper Bow

Warning: this is a difficult topic to discuss about and will probably require a lot of discussing.

Suggesting: Make the Elite Sniper Bow 1-handed.

Reason: Snipers already have a low damage output and with a two-handed bow, it leaves them extremely vulnerable to Asura, Sonic Blow, Throw Spirit Sphere, Arrow Vulcan and magic. With a 1-handed bow, it gives the sniper an equal chance to go against other classes. It'd increase a sniper's chance of survival and can help them with many situations.

Reasons Against: It renders magic classes even more non-useful. Magic classes already had an advantage over snipers with elemental bolts and AoE skills, but with a 1-handed bow and a GTB shield, they'll become useless. Professors will mainly resolve to Blinding Mist, reducing the ranged damage by a lot and only giving a certain percentage for ranged skills to work at. But the snipers can simply range-melee them until the magic-user runs out of yggs. For wizards... stave crasher isn't the best skill in the game. It's spammable but does not do a lot of damage. If the sniper is using Skolls while the wizard is using Thanatos, then the damage output... not so great.

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That is it for now. If there's anymore, I'll add it later. Feel free to discuss.

[nines]

I agree on

# [1]

# [2] Ankle snare un snapable backslideable I agree on but it should branch out to other classes who can lock people down to, like stalkers close confine and profs fiber lock.

# [4]

# [5]

theres already a 1 handed sniper bow in the rental thing so if you were to do that for snipers theyd have to do it for gunslinger which has already proven to be op.

ranged strip <,< already have a shit ton of stalkers just running around stripping don't need more people with max dex doing that.

[sessions]

Things in the compilation:

1. Pouring Cards
2. Ankle Snare
3. Ranged Strip
4. Double Strafe
5. Phantasmic Arrow
6. Elite Sniper Dagger
7. Elite Sniper Bow
8. 1-Handed Bows

1. Definitely. Snipers have many useful skills and it would be nice if they could all be used effectively.

2. Obviously I agree with this since I suggested it in the past. Also I believe this should be expanded to Spider Web and Close Confine since these are also "trapping" skills.

3. Agree. My ONLY problem with this is if Clowns/Gypsies began to use this. But other than this it wouldn't be all that OP and just like any type of stripping you can always run to get FCPed.

4. Double Strafe damage is already quite awful on someone with a shield and this isn't even that large of a boost, so I yes please.

5. If someone is smart with their use of Pneuma they could even be stripped and be fine so this would be extremely useful to help Snipers get closer to an equal level with Champions.

6. I think this is VERY important if long range strip is not accepted. And still important if one wants to strip without the threat of having no shield. Also using a main gauche can cause problems since there is no increase weight limit on a main gauche.

7. Yes with this also. I know the rental bow is supposed to be better but it should not be THAT much better.

8. I know this will be controversial but other than the magic classes with Sniper's current damage output it wouldn't be overpowered at all. This definitely puts magic classes in a bigger hole due to GTB, especially in this case because what professor/high wizard will have enough dex to strip the sniper's shield? But once again a Sniper can still use a dagger and GTB then after they strip use their 2 handed bow, which essentially does the same thing in the end as just having a 1 handed bow. Especially if the Sniper's damage is not killing the high wizard/professor and they have to resort to stripping.

I personally don't think this will make Snipers "OP" but for those who do, go play sniper yourself and see how difficult it can be. Also if something does become overpowered WE CAN ALWAYS CHANGE IT BACK.

theres already a 1 handed sniper bow in the rental thing so if you were to do that for snipers theyd have to do it for gunslinger which has already proven to be op

You don't have to make it for gunslinger also. Sniper wouldn't be OP but Gunslinger would? So just make it 1 handed on snipers.

Edited August 4, 2010 by sessions

[nines]

I personally don't think this will make Snipers "OP" but for those who do, go play sniper yourself and see how difficult it can be. Also if something does become overpowered WE CAN ALWAYS CHANGE IT BACK.

A good sniper is hard to kill and if the installment of the ankle snare would be put in then they would be without a doubt over powered with a 1 handed bow, so you'd basically be a sitting duck. then they could strip you and spam double strafe which when nude hurts like a biz natch.

But I would like to add an alternative to ankle snare if you can't snap out of it, this would make woe and traps beyond gay so most breakers use magnum break but u have to use it two times to kill one plus theres a big delay so I say make it so one magnum break would kill the trap if thats to hard to do increase the level of magnum break off marine sphere, It wouldn't be over powered for pvp but it would smooth thing out in woe if this were to happen especially since some people just trap the whole damn castle <.<.

[supream]

1.) agree and disagree. their damage isnt all the best and needs some improvement. disagree since why should snipers get special treatment when pandaring card only adds damage to stave crasher and not all magic attacks( you might think kingring card adds damage to all magic attacks but its only 3%, besides skeleton archer already adds damage to bow class weapons).

2.) agree with snap and backslide, disagree with magnum break. while champs and sinx might not be able to walk while in the traps even if they snap or backslide they can still run away by using that skill. if they cant walk they shouldnt be able to use skills to run away either. with magnum break if you break the traps then they will be able to move. you cant be a hypocrite by saying they shouldnt be able to run away while when snipers pvp and use traps, they use them to run away themselves.

3.)dont see any harm, fcp cures all of it.

4.) agree but if pouring gets changed then leave pouring the way it is.

5.)already agreed to it.

6)no hp boost not demi reduces. you can already get up to 80%(90 with combat knife) with all the other reduces why should snipers get more reduces? snipers already got a boost from tao and they have great hp as it is now.

7.)disagree. other elite weapons dont add damage with their skills. other classes are underpowered as well but dont receive any boost for a certain skill(s) with their elite weapon. also, same as before, snipers hp is good as it is now.

8.)disagree. if you really want the one handed sniper bow. just rent it from the rental npc.

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I personally don't think this will make Snipers "OP" but for those who do, go play sniper yourself and see how difficult it can be.

their not op, but their not severely underpowered either. played it and pawned at it.

Edited August 5, 2010 by supream

[Ethereal]

1.) agree and disagree. their damage isnt all the best and needs some improvement. disagree since why should snipers get special treatment when pandaring card only adds damage to stave crasher and not all magic attacks( you might think kingring card adds damage to all magic attacks but its only 3%, besides skeleton archer already adds damage to bow class weapons).

Well first of all, the suggestion isn't really giving snipers "a special treatment." It's only a simple way to let them have more effective damage. Also, the Pouring Cards go in the CLOAK while the Pandaring Card goes in the WEAPON, so they work differently. When a sniper goes into Pouring Cards, it leaves them completely vulnerable to Thanatos and Asura.

I'm not sure if you noticed this, but a suggestion regarding the improvement of Pandaring Card was just recently accepted.

http://forum.forsaken-ro.net/index.php?sho...=16056&st=0

2.) agree with snap and backslide, disagree with magnum break. while champs and sinx might not be able to walk while in the traps even if they snap or backslide they can still run away by using that skill. if they cant walk they shouldnt be able to use skills to run away either. with magnum break if you break the traps then they will be able to move. you cant be a hypocrite by saying they shouldnt be able to run away while when snipers pvp and use traps, they use them to run away themselves.

After reading a few posts, my mind is kind of on the fence for magnum break. Your post kind of confuses me... but I'd just like to say that regardless if you can't escape traps with magnum, there are still plenty of ways to fight snipers. For example, charge attack and spear boomerang (for LK's). Snipers are a ranged class, so they're SUPPOSED to be at a distance. I think I can understand where you're coming from with the point that people shouldn't be able to run from ankle snare when we use traps to run ourselves... just nevermind.

That part of your post confused me. If my post seems confusing, then it's probably because you confused me.

6)no hp boost not demi reduces. you can already get up to 80%(90 with combat knife) with all the other reduces why should snipers get more reduces? snipers already got a boost from tao and they have great hp as it is now.

I honestly do not see why not for the HP boost and demi-human reductions. If we're not wearing a Tao, our HP basically drops. A lot. And you cannot expect us to ~ALWAYS WEAR TAO.~ They have a poor HP pool in general. The Rental Bow gives HP +10%, so I don't see why not for the elite dagger. As for demi-human reductions, the dagger is simply for tanking purposes. It helps increase the chances of survival for sniper- a simple 5% won't hurt.

7.)disagree. other elite weapons dont add damage with their skills. other classes are underpowered as well but dont receive any boost for a certain skill(s) with their elite weapon. also, same as before, snipers hp is good as it is now.

I'm not sure if you noticed, but the Rental Sniper Bow gives +10% HP, +20% Damage for Double Strafe and Sharp Shooting. Most of the rental weapons are similar to their elite weapons, but slightly better. I don't see any reason why the elite bow can't be similar to the rental weapon. And once again, don't always expect us to wear Tao.

8.)disagree. if you really want the one handed sniper bow. just rent it from the rental npc.

I don't think you can always expect people who main sniper to always waste their coupons on renting sniper bows all the time. If someone were to always rent a sniper bow, it defeats the purpose of doing the elite quest in the first place. You can't expect snipers to be 'balanced' just by simply always renting a sniper bow as well.

their not op, but their not severely underpowered either. played it and pawned at it.

I agree that they're not over powered nor are they severely underpowered. But they DO need some kind of boost. And DEAR LORD, this is NOT about how well you can play and how much you "pawn" at it. It's about snipers in general.

@ Nines, i'll get to your post later.

[supream]

After reading a few posts, my mind is kind of on the fence for magnum break. Your post kind of confuses me... but I'd just like to say that regardless if you can't escape traps with magnum, there are still plenty of ways to fight snipers. For example, charge attack and spear boomerang (for LK's). Snipers are a ranged class, so they're SUPPOSED to be at a distance. I think I can understand where you're coming from with the point that people shouldn't be able to run from ankle snare when we use traps to run ourselves... just nevermind.

That part of your post confused me. If my post seems confusing, then it's probably because you confused me.

i was talking about how you should be able to use skills to run away while still stuck in ankle snare. if you break the trap that would be ok(charge attack will still leave you stuck in ankle snare). a sniper cant say they dont want someone to run away when they themselves use a trap to run themselves.

I honestly do not see why not for the HP boost and demi-human reductions. If we're not wearing a Tao, our HP basically drops. A lot. And you cannot expect us to ~ALWAYS WEAR TAO.~ They have a poor HP pool in general. The Rental Bow gives HP +10%, so I don't see why not for the elite dagger. As for demi-human reductions, the dagger is simply for tanking purposes. It helps increase the chances of survival for sniper- a simple 5% won't hurt.

daggers for stalkers can be use for strip to. also, what if someone dose wear tao that will stack with that to. 5% can make a big difference in some cases.

I'm not sure if you noticed, but the Rental Sniper Bow gives +10% HP, +20% Damage for Double Strafe and Sharp Shooting. Most of the rental weapons are similar to their elite weapons, but slightly better. I don't see any reason why the elite bow can't be similar to the rental weapon. And once again, don't always expect us to wear Tao.

some of those elite rental weapons are op. people have suggested a one handed bow before and it was declared op. i dont know why its like that for the rental. they are suppose to be similar but slightly better then the elite. i dont know why this one is so far off.

I don't think you can always expect people who main sniper to always waste their coupons on renting sniper bows all the time. If someone were to always rent a sniper bow, it defeats the purpose of doing the elite quest in the first place. You can't expect snipers to be 'balanced' just by simply always renting a sniper bow as well.

i wouldnt think of them to be balanced by simply using th elite bow. i wouldnt waist my money on it for something thats probably never going to be like the real one. a handed bow that gives that kind of buffs to my skills cant last forever. they do need a boost but i dont think it relies in their weapon.

I agree that they're not over powered nor are they severely underpowered. But they DO need some kind of boost. And DEAR LORD, this is NOT about how well you can play and how much you "pawn" at it. It's about snipers in general.

@ Nines, i'll get to your post later.

i was responding to what sessions said not you.

Edited August 5, 2010 by supream

[Xtopher]

I'll start by saying I love to see different classes used and be useful in general. It really gets boring seeing the same classes use the same strategies over and over so I'm all for helping out a class if it will be used more.

1. I see no real harm in this, but you are kind of stacking a couple damage boosting suggestions so maybe only increase a bit.

2. I agree with Snap and Magnum break, but not Backslide. Crippling snap a bit would help in woe defense. The Swordsman class is already a tank class and is capable of nerfing long range damage(Pala) or zooming in close with charge attack (LK). However, I do have to disagree on backslide as I consider the thief branches more evasive oriented. They are meant to be able to get out of sticky situations and I feel a Sniper's trap is one of those situations.

3. I see no problem with this. There's always FCP.

4. Like I said before, you're stacking damage boosting suggestions... individually they may not seem like much but together they can add up. I would think the GMs would test these percentages and damage outputs before implementation anyway. I'm neutral.

5. Agreed. What is a "Sniper" that can't hit his target? Useless, that's what.

6. Sure, more variability in builds and strategy.

7. Strongly disagree. As mentioned, there are already 1 handed bows from the rental npc. I imagine that this weapon and the Gunslinger Gun are probably the top rented items from this NPC and if the Elite bow is made one handed then you are kind of defeating the purpose of the renter. In my opinion it's meant as a coupon sink that gives players with spare coupons a slight upper hand if they pay for it....

I don't agree with a one handed bow in general, much less as the elite weapon. I think it defeats the purpose of the class in some ways. A Sniper/Hunter/Archer class is NOT meant for tanking. They are supposed to be "glass cannons" meaning they have a high damage output with low defense capabilities all the while keeping their opponent at a range. If you want to boost the Elite Bow I suggest looking into the point of the class more. Giving them a longer range, for one thing, would be much more appropriate I feel. If you keep your enemy away from you, you won't have to tank anything.

This is all my opinion... if yours differs thats fine... just hope I helped.

[Phenomenon]

I agree with every suggestion and like the idea of making the regular elite bows and guns to be one-handed. In a high rate server like this, 2 handed weapons SUCK big-time, and by making them one hand, and keeping rental weapons with better stats, people would still rent weapons while not outclassing the elite weapons people worked so hard to get. Making rental bows and guns 1 handed while the normal ones continue to be 2 handed really make the normal elite ones seem unappealing and dramatically affect their resell price.

But being more in-depth with the suggestion, I agree with everything wholeheartedly. Sniper class is one of the classes that are really underpowered in our high-rate world. Damage output is low and pneuma COMPLETELY leaves them useless. Clowns and Gunslingers at least still have the option of using Tarot/Desperado in the case that their long range skills are made useless by a pneuma. This is not the case with Sniper class and it would make them much more versatile.

I SO agree with the long range stripping being re-enabled. I don't understand why it was ever removed! It was SO crucial to the use of snipers in PvP/WoE and would certainly breathe life into the class!

E.I. I suggest that Pouring Cards increase damage when using a bow AND a gun, as it would help Gunslingers when using Rapid Fire, as desperado is not always a good idea as it involves close-range combat and Gunslingers just don't have the HP for it. I disagree with it increasing damage with all long range damage dealing attacks, as Arrow Vulcan does sufficient damage the way it is. I do think people should be able to snap/backslide out of traps however, just not be able to walk, such as tarot card does to you on occasion. Backslide and Snap are means of evasive maneuver and I do not believe it should prevent them from ESCAPING, but just prevent them from walking, as attacking an enemy without being to walk is difficult without the aid of long range skills.

[~*God Of War*~]

No on ranged strip~!!!

No on the skills that break traps O.o

[Phenomenon]

No on ranged strip~!!!

No on the skills that break traps O.o

Why no on ranged strip? Because it would own slow, long range classes such as paladins? FCP is easily accessible and paladins can null all effects of full strip anyways. Snipers are so underpowered as it is, let the snipers get some, you know what I mean? Ranged strip is only a problem when the enemy is unprepared. THOUGH it can own classes such as Whitesmiths/Lord Knights that don't regularly cloak and can suffer the consequences of running out of FCP. It's time to let snipers have some actual versatility in PvP.

[Poringly]

Well,

[1] Agree.

[2] Agree.

[3] Agree.

[4] Agree.

[5] Kinda disagree atm, since if we do that, it would be liek Champ would be killed easily, liek

Example :

There's a Champ in pneuma that was fighting a Ranged Char( Sniper ) and his friend ( Either GS/Biochemist/Soul Breaker Sinx/etc. )

So when the Champ was in pneuma, the Sniper keep doing Phantasmic Arrow on the Champ that will make the GS or the Biochem or the Sinx kill the Champ easily and thus most of the Champ dont have HP so much especially the Full Asura type one.

So well, i suggest it give's percentage like 30%~40%( Just like when you spam Tarot on someone, so its not Low %. )

[6] Agree

[7] Agree

[Sorrow]

1: i personally think pouring cards don't help at all, and wouldn't help even with this modification, but sure, i agree.

2:Traps are meant to stop movement, and thus movement skills should be also void while under its effect. So yeah, no backslide or snap off the traps and Magnun shouldn't destroy them either, the skills Remove Trap and Spring Trap exist as counters to traps, there's no need for any others.

3:i don't understand why this was removed in the first place. So yes, bring it back. It's not like FCP protects only against close range strip.

4:i think only a 20% boost would be better than nothing but still not the desirable amount. i agree, but i'd still preffer something in the lines of 500~600%. Let's no be hipocrites; this is a high rate server and the classes that get more popular are those who deal high damage, having snipers relying only on Double Strifing, a 1-1 job skill, is already a sad enough factor, it should be subastantialy improved. In therms of raw damage, Snipers are supposed to be superior to Clowns and Gypsies.

5:It's about time too; Pneuma completely blocks all attacks from snipers which shouldn't be the case; on kRO/iRO Charge Arrow also does pierces through Pneuma, for obvious reasons. If someone uses Safety Wall, Sinx can still Grimtooth/Soul Break, Champs can still TSS, even against Pneuma, Gunslingers have Desperado and Full Buster. Why must snipers be the only ones completely blocked by a single skill having no other skill option?

6:Agreed on the Knife. Every class should have at least 2 Elite Weapons to choose from, and since Bow is their main damaging weapon, their Dagger shoould be more Defense-Oriented.

The Bow Suggested has nice effects, but don't forget the Weight Limit bonus.

7:Hands down, in our server the lack of shield is a very grave sin against one's own life. The only, somewhat, decent snipers i'm observing lately are the ones using the rental bow; it has a grave drawback though; the complanings about mvp cards that get dragged in to never be seem again is ever rising.

Edited August 5, 2010 by Sorrow

[supream]

2:Traps are meant to stop movement, and thus movement skills should be also void while under its effect. So yeah, no backslide or snap off the traps and Magnun shouldn't destroy them either, the skills Remove Trap and Spring Trap exist as counters to traps, there's no need for any others.

spring trap is a skill only snipers can use and remove trap is only for stalkers and snipers. so just let them trap and shoot away and stop everyone in woe would be completely fair?

4:i think only a 20% boost would be better than nothing but still not the desirable amount. i agree, but i'd still preffer something in the lines of 500~600%. Let's no be hipocrites; this is a high rate server and the classes that get more popular are those who deal high damage, having snipers relying only on Double Strifing, a 1-1 job skill, is already a sad enough factor, it should be subastantialy improved. In therms of raw damage, Snipers are supposed to be superior to Clowns and Gypsies.

yea they were on iro since double straff was mostly aspd based and snipers got faster aspd then clowns on iro. but here thats changed and with kiels aspd base dosent really matter anymore. also, you dont have to use double straff. mine dose about 18-20k on shields and focus arrow dose 23k-25k on shields and with 3 kiels it can be spamed. yea sure it can use a boost but not to 600%.

5:It's about time too; Pneuma completely blocks all attacks from snipers which shouldn't be the case; on kRO/iRO Charge Arrow also does pierces through Pneuma, for obvious reasons. If someone uses Safety Wall, Sinx can still Grimtooth/Soul Break, Champs can still TSS, even against Pneuma, Gunslingers have Desperado and Full Buster. Why must snipers be the only ones completely blocked by a single skill having no other skill option?

i agree with this. its not easy to spam spring trap and move it.

6:Agreed on the Knife. Every class should have at least 2 Elite Weapons to choose from, and since Bow is their main damaging weapon, their Dagger shoould be more Defense-Oriented.

The Bow Suggested has nice effects, but don't forget the Weight Limit bonus.

my sniper gets up to 240k-250k hp why dose it need more? they need 300k hp? there not that under powered that if they put on a knife and shield they would get obliterated. they do need a weight bonus on the knife tho.

7:Hands down, in our server the lack of shield is a very grave sin against one's own life. The only, somewhat, decent snipers i'm observing lately are the ones using the rental bow; it has a grave drawback though; the complanings about mvp cards that get dragged in to never be seem again is ever rising.

then why not make katar one handed since shield is a absolute need. when i played sniper didnt need shield to win. their not a tanking class. they are more a ranged attacking sin, which evades attacks with traps. if u trap enough and use the right skills you shouldnt get hit by melee classes.

[~*God Of War*~]

Range strip for snipers only maybe but if you allow it for Stalkers, Gunslinger, Clown/Gypsy then no plz D:

[Rayray]

^

Stalkers got full strip, gunslingers got disarm and Clowns/Gypsy got tarot card and they are way powerful than snipers. why would they need long range strip?

agree on every suggestion especially on the traps and one hand bow.

Edited August 6, 2010 by ZerO25

[Ethereal]

spring trap is a skill only snipers can use and remove trap is only for stalkers and snipers. so just let them trap and shoot away and stop everyone in woe would be completely fair?

Actually, it wouldn't be that bad. As you already know, WoE is simply and utterly boring at times with the same and repetitive 999 breakers entering a guild and then breaking the emperium, then rinse & repeat. There's probably only a few guilds who defend, but their defenses aren't that great. With snipers having a fixed time, it would actually add a new level of difficulty during WoE. Breaking guilds would have to come up with different strategies to get past the traps, even if that means getting snipers to remove trap or killing the sniper casting the traps itself. Also, the amount of defending guilds would probably increase more. There hasn't been a guild in a long time that has reached a high amount of commerce.

my sniper gets up to 240k-250k hp why dose it need more? they need 300k hp? there not that under powered that if they put on a knife and shield they would get obliterated. they do need a weight bonus on the knife tho.

You speak as if a 10% HP boost gives you like 60k more HP. A 10% HP boost, personally, is NOT a lot. You say if a sniper puts on a shield and a knife, they would get obliterated. Then... wouldn't the demi-human reduction help? The dagger is strictly for defense-purposes. I'm not saying that they're a pure tanking class, but it could help.

I'll post more tmr. Gotta go!!

[sessions]

then why not make katar one handed since shield is a absolute need. when i played sniper didnt need shield to win. their not a tanking class. they are more a ranged attacking sin, which evades attacks with traps. if u trap enough and use the right skills you shouldnt get hit by melee classes.

A sinx using a katar and a sniper using a 2 handed bow are two TOTALLY different things. First of all using a bow is a Sniper's only option to attack someone, while a sinx can always just go back to 1 dagger and a shield. The sniper has only no shield for when they attack while a sinx is making the choice to use the katar to attack. And second a sniper can do like 8-10k per hit with Double Strafe on people with shields with a spam that is decent but not great, however on a sinx they can do 7-11k per hit x 8 hits with Sonic Blow with extremely fast spam if you're using 4 kiels. Sorry but 16-20k doesn't even compare to 56k-88k plus Double Strafe is much harder to spam than Sonic Blow.

I understand that you don't always need a shield to win a fight but against certain classes it is inevitable that you will get hit no matter how well you use your skills and trap. If you play someone smart they'll just use rsx and avoid the traps and then what are you left doing? Tanking some very high damage while you are doing all of MAYBE 20k per Double Strage. And don't forget our friend Asura, the only time you'd be able to survive a strong asura is with 2x Devilings and probably even Fluffy Wings/Sacred Wings which leaves you open to some painful TSS. A 1 handed bow would not be overpowered...all it does is level the playing field for snipers.

[supream]

i meant to say that a shield and knife wouldnt get a sniper obliterated. double straff is alot easier to spam then sonic blow. i dont know how u came up with that. im not disagreeing with all your suggestions just a few of them. i asked before about one handed bow it has been proven to be op. snipers on the iro server find a way to manage with all the other classes with a 2 handed bow, and sessions i showed u some stuff to get around all of that. you might say that clowns get to use shield, but their skill isnt spamable like ds or focus arrow.

[nines]

Plus kiting people is extremely easy on a sniper you get wind walk and you can use a regular bow with like thana maeros on it and u can keep going for a long time. What would maybe add a new setup for snipers instead of adding a 1 handed bow how about add an alternative bow,

Forsaken Cutter Bow.

Damage: 100

Stats: -20 Dex -20 Vit -20 agi.

Gives thana Effect.

This would make it so snipers could decide on getting minus bonuses to put in more damage if the person doesn't have skolls on and if they do have skolls on you could sub out your incan off your main bow to add more damage like 2x tg 2x skel worker instead of an incan. But yah 1 handed bow would prove op to magic classes plus they could tank asura + sinxs while there supposed to be a support class Since this is a high rate server I say just up there support skills instead of making them tanks also.

Also for ankle snare why not give it an effect like fiber lock if when they get trapped gives snipers bonus damage on the target by like 10% or something?

[Sorrow]

@Supream=

1-Yes it would be fair. WoE is not only composed of one person, a guild defending can bring their trappers and a guild attacking can bring their trap-disarmers, it's a team based event, think on equips not one guy VS a whole guild. Not only gives value for snipers to defend also for snipers to help their allies invading, valorizing the class.

2-You know how i call 20k damages? Not Worthy. Anyone can tank this easily, it wouldn't be that bad if it wasn't the fact you have to go DEX near 300 and go 2 FBHs to get this much, snipers have to sacrifice too much to get this damage, it's just...not worth it.

3-Yeah agreement. Skid Trap is excellent, but then again, a Strong Shield or RSX card makes it impoosible for you to do anything, with a damaging skill getting in, even if they do use these methods, you still have a source of damage...as low as it may be since both PA and CA are even weaker than Double strifing XD!

4-A sniper using a knife has no offensive potential, the use of the knife must be worth it, otherwise we'd just go Combat Knife...

5-Sessions said what i think about that. You can't compare Double Strifing to EDP+Sonic Blow. Besides Sinx have options; "i can either go 1 Dagger+Shield, two daggers or Katar", Snipers must use the bow if they ever hope to get anywhere. Also the rental One-Hand bow already proved to all of us that Shielded Snipers aren't as overpowered as everyone once speculated/divined they'd be. This change actually screws my favorite job even more since more people can use GTB. But i don't mind, it's only the fair for snipers, if all others can, even other ranged guys like Clowns, they should too.

[Rayray]

The only reason I use Sinx and other characters instead of my normal main characters in normal servers(Snipers, Wizard, WS) is because this is a high rate server and the sheer power and damage of other classes stops them and makes me think twice of using them. One hand bow wouldn't be too OP since Clowns and Gypsy use one handed weapons and the only thing we hate about them is their tarot spam. and again, saying "you can go one hand and dagger stab people to death" is pointless. forcing a class to use a dagger to be able to fight just shows how it is needed for them to have a little bit of help.

[supream]

@Supream=

1-Yes it would be fair. WoE is not only composed of one person, a guild defending can bring their trappers and a guild attacking can bring their trap-disarmers, it's a team based event, think on equips not one guy VS a whole guild. Not only gives value for snipers to defend also for snipers to help their allies invading, valorizing the class.

magnum break breaking it is find as it is now. traps in woe dont break from one magnum break from someone who uses marine sphere card, only from lks and pallies. the traps know slows people down already. they go away so fast due to alot of people running on them.

2-You know how i call 20k damages? Not Worthy. Anyone can tank this easily, it wouldn't be that bad if it wasn't the fact you have to go DEX near 300 and go 2 FBHs to get this much, snipers have to sacrifice too much to get this damage, it's just...not worth it.

i can get 18-20k damage with ds and 23-24 focus arrow without 300 dex. if u spam super slow no damage will matter. focus arrow can hit to 50k per hit and ds can hit 45k as it is now on someone without shield. it needs a little boost not a sever one.

4-A sniper using a knife has no offensive potential, the use of the knife must be worth it, otherwise we'd just go Combat Knife...

its for stripping

5-Sessions said what i think about that. You can't compare Double Strifing to EDP+Sonic Blow. Besides Sinx have options; "i can either go 1 Dagger+Shield, two daggers or Katar", Snipers must use the bow if they ever hope to get anywhere. Also the rental One-Hand bow already proved to all of us that Shielded Snipers aren't as overpowered as everyone once speculated/divined they'd be. This change actually screws my favorite job even more since more people can use GTB. But i don't mind, it's only the fair for snipers, if all others can, even other ranged guys like Clowns, they should too.

you guys want never breaking traps, shielded snipers with all ranged attacks with 260k hp from the tao and weapon, and people cant snap backslide or charge attack from the traps (charge attack has the same effect as if i were to backslide), and super reduces while you try and strip someone. is this what you guys really want to have happen?

Edited August 6, 2010 by supream

[Sorrow]

Well Supream, for how severily hindered and underpowered snipers are at the moment, these fixes would bring them up to par with their counterpart and other tops, maybe not even that high.

And don't forget that if something gets too out of hand, it can always be changed back, it's trial and error that'll get us closer to balance, no trial and Snipers will remain thrown to the moths.

i'll agree with you in that first one, but only if Paladins and Lord Knights would be indeed the only ones able to break the traps.

Shield is a basic equipment, you must have the shield into your damage calculation to say it is worthy, Clowns can make 150k HP go puff in a couple seconds even if the opponent has a shield, and yes, i'd like Snipers to have the same damaging potential; they're meant to. i don't think Snipers will be taken seriously until their damage is up to par to their counterpart.

[nines]

Sorrow thats like saying a thana sinx vs a person with 300 vit and devs on can do 400k sonic blows why not everyone else <.<.

Now I want to know why everyone is ignoring my suggestions what actually go and counter fix things instead of you guys constantly bitching back and forth omg this omg that this is thread for suggestion not I THINK THEY UP I THINK THIS MAKE THEM OP BUT THERE UP BLAH BLAH.

Jesus bunch of babys get back onto a topic of actually the suggestions made not meh meh meh -.-