Ladder!

[nines]

45% is fair....beyond fair thats 15% less and if you can't pull that then you don't deserve to be #1 and Xtopher makes a good idea it should be like

#1:1500:750

#2:1300:200

#3:800:100

#1 should get no wings but the box still because of time / "Effort"? with no converters.

and Xtopher your reply to Kitty....No we basically know its lame if you were to go into pvp or to ladder constantly you would know that that group has been banned over 5 times cheats constantly and always will and defaults gtb and orc lords.

On a side note for that group -During this current ladder I found it funny how people were coming in to pvp before not using gtb or orc lords but then when that group comes in, they start defaulting gtb even when the get into the pvp map so I can't kill them start using orc lords when the champ sees em for a free kill and keeps running on the outside of the map just for him to be found....seems odd no? lol

[Xtopher]

Well my responses were not aimed at any particular group of people. I'm not trying to defend or attack any specific player or group of players pvp style. I'm just saying you can't accurately judge how great a person is at pvp just with a kill:death ratio given our current pvp system.

I don't support cheating in any way but I do believe people deserve to be rewarded for devoting time and energy to something.

To be honest if a guy comes in to pvp vs you (who claims to be a great professor) and a champion then what choice does the guy really have other than defaulting gtb and orclord. If he puts on Usak to defend from champ you will destroy him and if he puts on gtb to defend from you the champ will destroy him. The only logical thing to do really is to default gtb, attempt to kill the professor and reflect the champs asura. Not many characters are capable of living through a full asura with a gtb on (even my well equipped stalker has a hard time with it).

Also, I've seen champs that are fully capable of killing people with orclords on. So, I believe the attacking champion here should change his strategy to something other than full asura for these types of people. If a champ is dumb enough to repetitive fall for reflect kills then I don't believe you can entirely blame the person wearing Orc Lord.

[nines]

Or its just the person laddering doesn't care about k/d ratio and will go full asura on the orc lord just for an easy kill....think of that lol.

[Ryuk]

I fully agree with Xtophers point of view.

Well, it may be "lame" but you still can not accurately judge how someone earned their kill/death ratio just from the numbers alone. I think that its "lame" that a couple of well geared players can stand around in pvp and help a friend wrack up hundreds of kills and keep them from dieing at the same time. It is quite possible that someone with 50% deaths worked even harder than someone with 15%. I also feel that if a person devotes that much time to it then they deserve to be rewarded.

That. It's impossible to accurately judge how someone earned their kill/death ratio. Hence why at times the player with 50% deaths deserves to win the ladder even more than someone with 15% deaths. I think changing this would only encourage the fully geared to win more, and the decently but slightly less geared to win less. It would also encourage teaming in pvp which is something that keeps most people AWAY from pvp. I don't see any reason to make the arena even more empty than it already is.

[nines]

Thank you Ryuk just gave me a good idea. The map for pvp is insanely easy to cheat on you got the outside areas walls to hide on and the 4 squares where u can die at easly. Id say use a regular square map for laddering like the survival map, actually that'd be perfect lol. And ryuk the people with 50% deaths were referring to and mainly making this topic on is based on the group of people that have been banned and because there unbanned there just abusing the system. Can't stress this enough........

On a side note....when I was a full non donation sinx I was able to hold my own in regular pvp vs people with thanas, Don't see why anyone else couldn't do that <.< In fact I would of won before on BloodNines if it wern't for tony -.-. Still had a 30% or 40% ratio with a fuckin sun aura and black butterfly wings lol.

[n i k k o]

I agree.

And just throwing it out there.

the people who feed and such are probibly the same ones who where banned once.

So why give them a 'New Slate'

thats like banning a hacker/scammer for life, and deciding to give them a second chance.

I agree some people do change.'

But if you notice now The same people who where banned for feeding and cheating are doing it again.

And winning

[Phenomenon]

I fully agree with Xtophers point of view.

That. It's impossible to accurately judge how someone earned their kill/death ratio. Hence why at times the player with 50% deaths deserves to win the ladder even more than someone with 15% deaths. I think changing this would only encourage the fully geared to win more, and the decently but slightly less geared to win less. It would also encourage teaming in pvp which is something that keeps most people AWAY from pvp. I don't see any reason to make the arena even more empty than it already is.

I change my view on this suggestion because of this post, I think it would discourage the mildly geared from attempting to ladder and encourage teaming and a less fun PvP environment over all.

[nines]

I change my view on this suggestion because of this post, I think it would discourage the mildly geared from attempting to ladder and encourage teaming and a less fun PvP environment over all.

Except when anyone body goes into pvp now its just to ladder and everyone who ladders is fully geared and with a gang -.- it has been like that before, and I seem to recall when the 60% was enforced there were people who won ladder of nd pvp ever since it stopped its just been dealing with a bunch of cheaters. And I dare anyone to deny this its a fact written and chizzeled in gold <.<

[Phenomenon]

That's true however, the poor and gangless have already been discouraged from PvPing, though I think this suggestion would further deter them from PvP. I'm going to put my final opinion into this suggestion and agree with nines, I think that if for some unfortunate reason you die a lot, then you likely shouldn't deserve it for not putting the necessary effort in order to get the prize. I think we should do the PvP ladder with a certain point system where a certain kill/death ratio is necessary, and if the 1st place on the ladder doesn't meet the criteria, then 2nd place can claim it, and so on.

+1 for required kill/death ratio. :D

[nines]

I was thinking of that to making it so second place would get the prize if there kd was better but, there should be like if there within this range of kills or if they have a certain k/d they can get it otherwise it would just be like a handmedown.

[Perishable]

People who doesn't cheat in ladder and won first place fairly should deserve to be rewarded for devoting time into it.

No Kill ratio because it's hard for them get a good ratio when getting ganged or have no gang to help you when trying to ladder. Since there is too much ganging in ForsakenRO PvP. It's been like that for 100+ weeks already. Just leave it. It won't be fair now to change it since it's been this way for 100+ weeks. I would agree with bringing back the kill ratio but look at how many weeks its been. We don't want to disappoint anyone else.

[nines]

No one wanted the k/d ratio to be gone since they stopped doing it....why they stopped is unknown it should be back regardless of how long its been and because your noticing the time and you watched ladder before you should know what the no k/d ratio has done to the server -.-

[Perishable]

It helps newbies that won ladder get more gears and get PvP Ladder wings and more opportunity to balance their class against the geared players. Don't just think about the veteran and such. How about the newbies? Being overpowered and getting owned by us. They can't ladder with ratio like some of us could.

[Xtopher]

I agree with Som, with a kill to death ratio plus the amount of ganging that goes on in our pvp rooms newer players or players with less high-end equipment really don't stand a chance. A kill death ratio would only help the rich/veterans become more rich and more powerful. I say if you want to win then you should put in more time and effort than the other guy. If a newer player or player with less than perfect equips puts in more effort and time than a fully geared veteran then he deserves to win.

If we implement systems that only serve our veterans and fully geared players our population will never really grow. Given the fact that most veterans are fully geared they are less likely to donate (I think). With little influx of new players and little to no donations coming from veterans what do you think will happen to the server?

People often take for granted the "noobs" they see in pvp or for_fild01 wearing no custom equips and a PooPoo Hat. The influx of these people, who in time become better and well equipped if they like the server, is what keeps us going. If they come into the pvp rooms and just see a gang of players who have been here a year or more wracking up kills they are not very likely to stay IMO.

Lastly, your suggestion and responses seem directed to one particular group of people whom you say break the rules. I do not support people cheating but I also don't believe other players and future players should be put at a disadvantage just because these people have cheated. If you catch them cheating then report them. The staff here is capable of handling these people and if they're repeated offenders then I would guess they would be handled more harshly. I just don't believe you should implement a ratio just because this particular group has caused trouble.

[Perishable]

I agree with Som, with a kill to death ratio plus the amount of ganging that goes on in our pvp rooms newer players or players with less high-end equipment really don't stand a chance. A kill death ratio would only help the rich/veterans become more rich and more powerful. I say if you want to win then you should put in more time and effort than the other guy. If a newer player or player with less than perfect equips puts in more effort and time than a fully geared veteran then he deserves to win.

If we implement systems that only serve our veterans and fully geared players our population will never really grow. Given the fact that most veterans are fully geared they are less likely to donate (I think). With little influx of new players and little to no donations coming from veterans what do you think will happen to the server?

People often take for granted the "noobs" they see in pvp or for_fild01 wearing no custom equips and a PooPoo Hat. The influx of these people, who in time become better and well equipped if they like the server, is what keeps us going. If they come into the pvp rooms and just see a gang of players who have been here a year or more wracking up kills they are not very likely to stay IMO.

Lastly, your suggestion and responses seem directed to one particular group of people whom you say break the rules. I do not support people cheating but I also don't believe other players and future players should be put at a disadvantage just because these people have cheated. If you catch them cheating then report them. The staff here is capable of handling these people and if they're repeated offenders then I would guess they would be handled more harshly. I just don't believe you should implement a ratio just because this particular group has caused trouble.

Yes. This is true and legit.

[nines]

I seem to recall when the 60% was enforced there were people who won ladder of nd pvp ever since it stopped its just been dealing with a bunch of cheaters. And I dare anyone to deny this its a fact written and chizzeled in gold <.<

Alright im gonna just number these down.

1. This server won't get bigger off the ladder if anything it will get smaller because people hate ladder, before there used to always be people in pvp now you see no one because no one wants to get owned in pvp. The only people that go in pvp now are just for laddering or feeding purposes. And the noobs you speak of at least 80% of the ones I have seen join this server don't even last a week because they don't want to donate to get geard or take the months of farming to get good.(+ The server won't get bigger because to get vote qpons you don't even have to actually vote so everyone just abuses that, so were like #50 on some sites or some shit like that)

2. You saying only the "Pros" will ladder.....well duh its a ladder you really think some one half geard is going to be able to ladder and win it, its a contest of pvp the best will win -.- (+ If pros do keep laddering it will actually fix the economy because you've got these recolors that are over priced like hell for the same fuckin stat that sgws do when sgws ffs you can probably buy one for 1000 now, Not even 3 months ago they were like 2100, and Recolors are like 3500 now -.-, so yes if we get more of these recolors floating around instead of just letting the super rich have them the price will drop and demand will go down)

3. How do you think this server stays up and running <.< every time theres an update you got every veteran or some one whos semi geard going and donating for rucksacks or auras -.- Don't say theres little to no donations when you can obviously tell there are just look at all the things that are donation exclusive floating around.

4. Yes before it was directed at a group of people but hey they seem to be the only people laddering anymore and its practically every week since this dumb unbanning stuff.

If I end up having to repeat my self again (This is not a full repeat added some new stuff) Im going to end up tearing some one a new one verbally <.<.

[Ryuk]

I pretty much already shared my ideas on this subject but..

I think that if for some unfortunate reason you die a lot, then you likely shouldn't deserve it for not putting the necessary effort in order to get the prize. I think we should do the PvP ladder with a certain point system where a certain kill/death ratio is necessary, and if the 1st place on the ladder doesn't meet the criteria, then 2nd place can claim it, and so on.

I really see no connection in dieing a lot and having lack of effort. Someone slightly less fortunate who's not as geared as all the veterans might be putting way more effort into laddering , despite the fact that he's dieing more often. Actually most of the time the people with higher deaths have put more effort into laddering compared to the low death people.

For example there's this geared player with his group of veterans laddering, The follow-up person that didn't have this gang and less gears must have had way more trouble gaining the kills compared to the fully geared teamer. Hence why the less geared player needs to put even more effort into laddering compared to the geared ones. Hence why I think it's unfair to decrease the chances of less geared players of winning ladder.

Edited July 30, 2010 by Ryuk

[sessions]

TO END ALL THIS QQ ABOUT LADDERING I SAY WE JUST REMOVE KILL COUNTS FROM WOE

[nines]

Why do people never read -.-

[sessions]

Why do people never read -.-

Because it's 3 pages of garbage.

Lol no but really I do agree with this I was just going off topic. My main thing is that the rule existed in the past and I don't even know why it was removed. It makes you actually have to pvp smartly. Not just rack up as many kills as possible completely disregarding your deaths.

But being completely serious I really think kills should no longer count in woe. This would actually make the PvP Room important in the PvP Ladder. I don't see how a Gunslinger pressing Desperado all WoE is real PvP. And if the kill/death requirement was implented big frickin deal because those Gunslingers hardly die since they usually have a Paladin and/or a little gang with them. If both WoE kills didn't count and this was implemented the PvP room would probably see far more action than right now. I could see having WoE kills counting when there were 3 WoEs but now that you we have 4 of them? No, it completely kills the PvP Room. Went sort of off topic here but whatever.

Edited July 31, 2010 by sessions

[Renegade]

But being completely serious I really think kills should no longer count in woe. This would actually make the PvP Room important in the PvP Ladder. I don't see how a Gunslinger pressing Desperado all WoE is real PvP. And if the kill/death requirement was implented big frickin deal because those Gunslingers hardly die since they usually have a Paladin and/or a little gang with them. If both WoE kills didn't count and this was implemented the PvP room would probably see far more action than right now. I could see having WoE kills counting when there were 3 WoEs but now that you we have 4 of them? No, it completely kills the PvP Room. Went sort of off topic here but whatever.

I agree with you, sessions, and this suggestion was accepted in the past. So, I assume that this will be changed in an update soon.

Please do not discuss this further here though.

Edited July 31, 2010 by Renegade

[Veracity]

Another topic was made about this and we've decided we are going to try reinstating the kill/death ratio and see how it goes.

- Accepted -