Woe

[Perishable]

Uh, Pink, Teal, White, Black, Red Emp Auras are still unreleased. I don't really understand why there can't be more castles, maybe even in Euro WoE?

Yeah. Maybe in European WoE?

[Fear]

As you must have a point from experience, what most of us are saying are from experience as well, and most importantly, experience on THIS server. And we shall continue to talk about American WoE.

History lesson. We only had one castle before. The competition for it was fierce. Ever more so when the new castle drops were implemented. Groups of friends and the strongest people in the server banded together so that they could control it better and hopefully raise the commerce. At one point they were unstoppable. But a group of stragglers banded together too and beat them.

If the server just opened up another castle at that time, no one would go against that certain guild, and either smaller guilds would go for the other one, or just band together and raise commerce themselves. What will happen? No more competition. People would sit pretty in their castles and reap their rewards, without the fun, without competition.

Just so happened we opened another castle. But the population at that time was getting bigger, hence the right move. 2 prominent guilds, but still being attacked by other smaller guilds to the point that even the 2 big guilds that held the castles fought for each other. Still, good competition among players.

And another one opened. But the players weren't enough. Now two big guilds held two different castles, no one could break them, because one, these guilds didn't bother sending an attack party to the other big guild, they'll just grab the castle all the small guilds go after, because it's easy, and there's no defense, and two, as I said, the smaller guilds would just go after the other, least defended castle. This is a move we cannot undo, and still feel the effects right now. A big alliance holding one castle, and two "worthless till the last minute" castles, because not enough players are banding up together. How is 3-5 big guilds controlling WoE, as you say?

In reality there are 2 guilds controlling ONE castle, and a bunch of other smaller/less experienced/less geared guilds having their chance at the two other castles. And this is already boring. What can you call "competition?" People ignoring a certain castle and just trying their LUCK with the "free" castles is not competition. So in saying, if you can't even see the fact that 3 is already too much and it's killing competition, what would more castles opening do? Do not always compare the server to other servers, because however it may still be Ragnarok Online, certain elements could have been adapted to change some things, like, say, the coupon economy. And the incentive to WoE that the rewards are very nice, and with 3 castles open, lots of opportunities to get one. Provided you are PREPARED.

---------

For Euro WoE, I am still unsure of the move we have to take. Repherion is tight, but the amount of players online is good now at the time. Maybe, there is a need for a new castle, or relocate the Euro WoE castle to a bigger one, so at least one guild can try to set up a defense with more time for setting up after an E-call.

[n i k k o]

I read the whole Post.

Down to the shit people dont care about.

this is a great arguement but at the same time GM's are right.

if you want a small guild to take a castle then get off the fucking forums and get to work.

hunt thana do something to get the shit you want.

yeah more castles would be fucking amazing.

but that isnt fun.

take

Influence for example.

Yeah we work hard to get castle.

even when we dont have a castle we keep our heads high and plan a bettter woe.

if you wanna be the best. then beat the best.

Dont complain over Castle being crowded.

If you wanna be the best take a castle from the other guilds.

end of story.

and

Hi SketchyAngle :]

[Sensation]

The problem that always appeared to be there was small (starting) guilds trying to get a castle.

That on itself doesn't hurt at all, except, there are many small guilds competing with you, a wiser decision would be to fusion with 2-3 of those small guilds and form 1 good, firm and big guild, being an actual competition for the current guilds.

Another idea is to ally one of the bigger guilds and aid them in their fight, there's a saying that says; "if you can't beat them, join them" and "keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer", both are viable is a 'war'.

Your suggestion is quite normal for a fairly new player, yet placed in the wrong forum or the rant was worked out wrong or interpreted by me & my previous posters, but as you might have noticed, there's a small amount that rather would see the amount of castles being reduced to 2 for the 'American' WoE and kept at 1 for the 'European' WoE.

Those comments were made from experiencing the server.

Please don't feel attacked by their words, but reconsider if what you first stated actually applies to the current situation.

Further more, keep things nice and formal guys, we don't want to throw around warnings or close a touchy subject like this, it's good to talk about things, just take it easy on each other = )

[RoMe]

I read the whole Post.

Down to the shit people dont care about.

this is a great arguement but at the same time GM's are right.

if you want a small guild to take a castle then get off the fucking forums and get to work.

hunt thana do something to get the shit you want.

yeah more castles would be fucking amazing.

but that isnt fun.

take

Influence for example.

Yeah we work hard to get castle.

even when we dont have a castle we keep our heads high and plan a bettter woe.

if you wanna be the best. then beat the best.

Dont complain over Castle being crowded.

If you wanna be the best take a castle from the other guilds.

end of story.

and

Hi SketchyAngle :]

I bet it also helps to have Royal Mafia helping you guys take/defend a castle huh?

[Devotion]

If you can't beat em, join em? And if RM offends you there are other options, always. I'd say rejected for now, but this isn't even in suggestions.

[RoMe]

If you can't beat em, join em? And if RM offends you there are other options, always. I'd say rejected for now, but this isn't even in suggestions.

I never said that RM offends me. Was just making a point.

And this isnt in suggestions for two reasons.

First and foremost... I didnt see the suggestions sub-forum until I had already posted this.

Second, a suggestion suggests no arguments. Merely speaking your mind w/o reprisal. This is more along the

lines of an argument.

[SketchyAngel]

Okay, well. I'm not saying that all guilds do this, but. Normally, the drops are given out to friends, and some people usually have to wait a really long time to get their share. You know what I mean?

And second, it's still a matter of joining those guilds and being placed in an extremely long lineup.

Personally, idc about what happens. I don't woe anyways. But for those that do, it's kind of annoying to have to wait months to get something you deserve as much as everyone else.

And hi person.

[Kayleigh]

it takes long because the drops dont drop everyday its all about luck and if you are in a big guild thats gona take a while to get so many for everyone.The idea is to enjoy the game and woeing because if you are only woeing for drops then when you do get the emp aura and other drops what then? many people dont realise but its the thrill of getting the item you want thats fun because after you get it then you realise its not that special and your still like everyone else who is reliant on berries to pvp.picture pvp here with no berries, a sinx or good sniper or gs would be the only classes pvping? all the woe drops in the world wouldnt matter then.

[Dr. Love]

Didn't read the previous posts. Sorry.

My input is to open another Euro WoE Castle. Not for drops but maybe opening a second castle would allow division on the number of people in a castle during Euro WoE. It must be just me but I lag like 8282391238 times more during Euro WoE than in American WoE.

As for guilds merging, I think it's an ideology. It won't happen. Or at least won't last. People tend to let their greedy side take over and detach from their main guild and then form their own (much like me ahuehue) so they can solo their castle drops.

[Rayray]

You could take away WoE drops and I would still be arguing this point. Albeit not to the same degree because then I couldnt make a salary out of castle drops. This is one reason it is so hard for lesser guilds to get started and retain their members. For some reason, people think they deserve zeny/items/etc for WoEing. If they dont get a castle, they dont get drops. They dont get what they want, they leave. Eventually small guilds end up disbanding, leaving you with only the larger, established guilds.

In the begining, yes, larger guilds will get drops faster. But more guilds will form, and take castles over, gain more members and become powerful. Even large guilds can only hope to maintain 2 castles at a time with a relative chance of success. They will soon start competing for the more, shall we say, prestigious castles AKA Valkyrie castles. This is how it is in pretty much every other server. What castle you have shows how powerful your guild is.

To make another point (one that I am continually making). WoE is a large reason people play RO. It IS THE REASON they stay on a server. If WoE is no fun, they move. 3-5 guilds controlling WoE is no fun (except for those guilds). If you want to retain players, you have to make WoE interesting, or at least fair to all.

Oh how original an idea! Ill bet nobody in the HISTORY OF THIS GAME has EVER thought of that [/sarcasm]. Just being able to target the emperium when there are 20 SinX and countless other classes attacking it is a chore in itself. Standing still for that long gets you killed.

My point is your argument of "more castles=more competition" is absurd. And why the hell would you make a woe oriented guild when you yourself is

1. new to the server

2. doesn't have enough resources to give out salary to your members

that in itself shows that you lack something to make the guild work, thus you cannot say "no castle= guild disbands". Most guys want salary for their work in WoE. Some don't. I am gonna state this once more. You.Are.New. Why did you make a guild to woe with when you yourself isn't ready yet. You think winning a castle is a shortcut to get yourself geared? also guild masters are often seen with respect among their members and some people in the community, that is also a reason why people stay in the guild, not just the drops. I know most of my members in my guild did just that, they stayed until now even if I don't really give out much salary last time.

Lastly, yes EVERYBODY had thought of the strategy of last hitting the emp. I don't see the point of you making that reply when I told you that if you can break the emp in 5 seconds flat, then you wouldn't have the problem of last hitting. I just thought you wouldn't have a problem getting a castle if you could do that. IF you really can do that, then do it. no problems there right?

p.s. You haven't reacted on the last part of my post that you quoted. then I'll state it again. by suggesting another castle when almost everybody is fine with the way it is, it actually sounds like your guild cannot compete with most of the guilds out here in FRO. Solution? Make yourself and your guild stronger then.

As we said, smaller guilds here actually got castles when they wanted to.

Edited November 23, 2009 by calintz1218

[Adum*]

Ethereal is a guild out to prove that quality is better than quantity.

Live up to what you stated, take it as a challenge.

Where do you guys hang out by the way?o.o I don't see you in thor or for_fild01.

[RoMe]

My point is your argument of "more castles=more competition" is absurd. And why the hell would you make a woe oriented guild when you yourself is

1. new to the server

2. doesn't have enough resources to give out salary to your members

that in itself shows that you lack something to make the guild work, thus you cannot say "no castle= guild disbands". Most guys want salary for their work in WoE. Some don't. I am gonna state this once more. You.Are.New. Why did you make a guild to woe with when you yourself isn't ready yet. You think winning a castle is a shortcut to get yourself geared? also guild masters are often seen with respect among their members and some people in the community, that is also a reason why people stay in the guild, not just the drops. I know most of my members in my guild did just that, they stayed until now even if I don't really give out much salary last time.

Lastly, yes EVERYBODY had thought of the strategy of last hitting the emp. I don't see the point of you making that reply when I told you that if you can break the emp in 5 seconds flat, then you wouldn't have the problem of last hitting. I just thought you wouldn't have a problem getting a castle if you could do that. IF you really can do that, then do it. no problems there right?

p.s. You haven't reacted on the last part of my post that you quoted. then I'll state it again. by suggesting another castle when almost everybody is fine with the way it is, it actually sounds like your guild cannot compete with most of the guilds out here in FRO. Solution? Make yourself and your guild stronger then.

As we said, smaller guilds here actually got castles when they wanted to.

More available castle does in fact equate to more guild competition. The only people who cant see that are short-sighted. If all areas were opened for WoE, there would be a guild monopoly for a little while. I have never denied that. but what I keep pointing out (and nobody has refuted yet... at least with more of an argument than "im right you're wrong") is that EVENTUALLY more guilds will form. Larger guilds will loose unsatisfied members, members who want drops faster, and members who have some issue with other people in the guild. larger guilds loose some members, making them a small bit weaker, while new guilds get an influx of competent, geared, experienced players to help them. Where you have more guilds forming, you will have more competition.

You guys seem to be thinking about this in the wrong way. It seems to me that you think that if you open up all cities and castles for WoE then 200 fully geared, maxed out guilds are going to magically spring up from the ground and start fighting over the Prontera castles (which are historically the home for all guilds people consider "pro"). It wont happen like this. there will be competition between the smaller, newly formed guilds in the places people dont usually care about for WoE (such as the geffen castles). This will be happening while the numerous guilds that are already established fight over the two lesser cities (Payon and Aldebaran). Then the dominating guilds will be fighting over Prontera.

By competition, I dont mean every guild fighting over every castle. This will be like a ladder of sorts, where guilds on/around the same rung, will be competing over castles in the same area. There will be competition between guilds with the same experience instead of how it is now, mixing in every guild to fight for one castle.

As for the Guild monopoly in the beginning, it wont be so much a dominating force as one guild will probably be able to hold onto 2 castles, maybe 3 at the most. But when they get attacked they will consolidate and abandon, taking the castle they want the most as their base and keep it. Eventually in a few weeks even the top guilds will have one, maybe 2, castles. It will be chaotic for a month, if that long, but it will easily sort itself out.

This is how it has happened in the dozens (number is nearing 100 now) of servers I have played over the near decade I have been playing RO. In my eyes My Experience > Your Conjecture.

Now onto something I have already stated twice.

It stands to reason that guilds get stronger by gaining more members, and experienced players yes? Yes. Ok.

Now, as I have shown before, 98-99% of people who WoE want a salary. With the coupon economy, zeny is useless. Not all of us can afford to donate for coupons in the amount that most people want for a salary. That leaves us with castle drops in exchange for participation. If you cant get a castle, you have a harder time recruiting members (who wants to be a member of a guild who cant win?). When you repeatedly cant attain a castle, you loose members. If, like I stated before members=strength, then you are loosing your ability to fight in WoE in any effectual way. When you loose enough of your members, it is pointless to continue with the guild and you usually end up disbanding it. Therefore (to put it in your own terms) no castle = guild disband... although its more like No castle = no drops = no salary = loosing members = guild disbands (theres a nice little flow chart even you should be able to understand).

And once again, on the subject of taking a castle using a last hit tactic. It is easy to say "be the last one to hit the emp to break it", but it is infinitely more difficult to actually BE the last one to hit it. Consider the fact that there are usually 10-20 people attacking the emp to break it (in the current conditions of WoE). At best case scenario, I have a 1/10 chance of being the last person to hit when it breaks, at worst it is 1/20. So to give you the range of my possibility of breaking an emp with everyone else attacking it, at any given time I have a 5-10% chance of winning. Not very high. That does not, however take into account, the 20-40 members of various guilds I have to pass (usually just in the emp room alone) to actually get to the Emperium. If I could snap my fingers and make everyone freeze while I break the emp, then it would be as easy as you suggest it is, and I wouldnt have had to make this thread. Unfortunately, I have not yet discovered that magical power.

When you have more than 3 people attacking the emperium at once, it is not skill or equips that will get you the castle, it is pure, dumb-luck on who lands the last attack.

Edited November 23, 2009 by RoMe

[Devotion]

More available castle does in fact equate to more guild competition.

When you have more than 3 people attacking the emperium at once, it is not skill or equips that will get you the castle, it is pure, dumb-luck on who lands the last attack.

Ok, not here. Players who've been here way longer than you are trying to let you know that Fro is very different from other servers, and that bumping up the number of open castles is not a good thing right now. There is a guild named Transcension that is currently on hold, but they had monopoly over any castle they wanted for as long as they wanted. They had full control over purple emps until the leader took a break. That didn't give rise to new guilds, everyone just renamed their guilds and they invite the same people. We're trying to tell you that the cost of a bad economy isn't worth a couple guilds monopolizing all the castles. We just experienced a really bad economy and it's better again and we don't want to experience that again.

As for the second comment I've quoted, again as someone who's been here a couple years I can tell you that skill matters to be a good breaker here. We're not other servers we're this one. You're right, any class can get the lucky shot, actually i once broke an emp with a paladin on a lowrate, but we have known breakers who break majoritarily.

And, if you want this topic moved o suggestions, you could just let someone know :P

[SketchyAngel]

Euro WoE doesn't require any skill at all, it's all based on luck.

[Apo]

Dude, lrn2ro... More castle = more random breakers getting castle = more woe drops = item prices dropping = noty we should reduxe castle during american woe, like remove alde castle making more guild willing to team work and higher woe drops

Edited November 24, 2009 by Apo

[Rayray]

^ exactly what most people are saying, and he just don't want to hear it.

@topicstarter

So you are saying that if we open the other castles so smaller guilds fight in them right? WOW then If I am the leader of the bigger guilds then I will surely target those castles since only new guys defend them. And for the record, we are right and you are wrong. Your arguments are back and forth. You are too close-minded. We have told you, opening a castle won't make newer guilds get their share of drops, but rather give bigger guilds with pro and experienced breakers and guilds that can actually defend will monopoly drops again. What you visualize on happening when we open new castles simply will not happen.

And you still continue to compare this server to others. try not to do that and learn the ways of this server first.

on your argument on salary. Um I haven't donated ever. I get salary by hunting for it and having other members of my guild hunt for them. so your flow chart of no castle= guild disband is just an excuse. there are many ways to get salary for members, you just wanted an easy way to get them. and you said it already, if you cannot get the castle, you won't get members. How the hell do you expect to get a castle when you are new and the guild is new? I still cannot see the reason on making a new guild to woe when you know yourself that you cannot get a castle with that much competition. and again, you also said that quality>quantity. so get yourself a few good members and show us if your guild can do it.

on breaking. If you woed here long enough, you will see that breaking isn't all about luck as you said. Yes luck is part of it. But try to woe every day it is on. You will see the breaker's name right? you will notice that they will be the ones who broke the emp almost everyday it is on.

on the last paragraph you put on your novel, you also said that it is not easy as it sounds when trying to last hit right? if it is then you wouldn't even made this thread, as you said. That just proves that you wanted an EASY way to break or get the emp. The competition makes it fun, I don't know why you don't like it. Or is it because you know in yourself you cannot get the castle if it is that hard to get it?

So I want to post my question again that you haven't answered.

Why make a new guild to woe when you are new, and you know you cannot compete with the other guilds?

Edited November 24, 2009 by calintz1218

[RoMe]

And, if you want this topic moved o suggestions, you could just let someone know :P

If you would do that, it would be awesome.

^ exactly what most people are saying, and he just don't want to hear it.

@topicstarter

So you are saying that if we open the other castles so smaller guilds fight in them right? WOW then If I am the leader of the bigger guilds then I will surely target those castles since only new guys defend them. And for the record, we are right and you are wrong. Your arguments are back and forth. You are too close-minded. We have told you, opening a castle won't make newer guilds get their share of drops, but rather give bigger guilds with pro and experienced breakers and guilds that can actually defend will monopoly drops again. What you visualize on happening when we open new castles simply will not happen.

And you still continue to compare this server to others. try not to do that and learn the ways of this server first.

on your argument on salary. Um I haven't donated ever. I get salary by hunting for it and having other members of my guild hunt for them. so your flow chart of no castle= guild disband is just an excuse. there are many ways to get salary for members, you just wanted an easy way to get them. and you said it already, if you cannot get the castle, you won't get members. How the hell do you expect to get a castle when you are new and the guild is new? I still cannot see the reason on making a new guild to woe when you know yourself that you cannot get a castle with that much competition. and again, you also said that quality>quantity. so get yourself a few good members and show us if your guild can do it.

on breaking. If you woed here long enough, you will see that breaking isn't all about luck as you said. Yes luck is part of it. But try to woe every day it is on. You will see the breaker's name right? you will notice that they will be the ones who broke the emp almost everyday it is on.

on the last paragraph you put on your novel, you also said that it is not easy as it sounds when trying to last hit right? if it is then you wouldn't even made this thread, as you said. That just proves that you wanted an EASY way to break or get the emp. The competition makes it fun, I don't know why you don't like it. Or is it because you know in yourself you cannot get the castle if it is that hard to get it?

So I want to post my question again that you haven't answered.

Why make a new guild to woe when you are new, and you know you cannot compete with the other guilds?

Yes, most people are saying that they like the castles how they are. NOBODY, though, has really given much evidence as to why my idea is wrong. They are just saying, I like it this way, therefore it should stay this way. Or I want, so I should have. I have given so much in the way of evidence that its quite ridiculous. I back up everything i say with facts and evidence and experience.

How are my arguments back and forth? They have been the same since I started this.

The larger guilds wont target the smaller guilds because they will be too busy defending from other guilds trying to take their castle. If they do try to take a smaller guilds castle they will only be able to send a couple of people at most to take it. One will be a SinX which is easily countered (either strip and sacrifice, or wait for them to attack emp and turn their dmg to holy) and another class (judging from this server most likely a Gunslinger which can be countered with a HW). If a guild cannot defend against two people, then they deserve to loose the castle, its that simple. For the sake of argument, lets say that the two people won, getting the castle for a large guild. You then have 2 people defending a castle from which any other guild could take it. As I continuously state, even a guild that has 50+ ppl on for WoE can only effectively defend 2 castles at a time with the spark of hope of keeping them. if they try to branch any farther than that, they stand the large risk of loosing 2 castles. Simply put, it would take a guild family of 3-4 guilds with full members on for WoE to make an actual monopoly (by monopoly I mean hold on to 4+ castles w/o loosing them for weeks on end, to the point where nobody bothers to attack you anymore).

There are 20 castles (30 with WoE 2.0) in the game, there are maybe 3 guilds (as of now) with the possible ability to end up with 2 castles. Once again for the sake of argument, lets say that those three guilds do end up with 2 castles at the end of WoE. 2 x 3=6, 20 - 6=14. Thats 14 castles left for smaller guilds. I would also like to point out to you that the probability of any of those guilds ending up with 2 castles is between 25-30%. A monopoly cannot happen this way. Out of 10 years of RO gameplay experience, I have only seen monopolies on servers with castle restrictions.

From devotion's story about a guild that had a monopoly on whatever castle they happened to take, it seems to me that only having 2 or 3 castle actually helped contribute to the problem. If you had 20 castles open, you could just go pick another one to take. More castles will contribute to more drops, and with more guilds with more castles, there will be no monopoly on drops. The economy might suffer from an influx of WoE drops, but you could lower the drop rate. Most other servers who have super equips from WoE drops have the drop rate at like 3%, and make a max of 15 chests in a castle. That takes care of the imbalance caused by everyone selling rare items like auras.

Most server's share a causality chain. So I HAVE to compare this server to others that are similar to it. The same chain reactions will nearly always happen when you start them on any server. For example: if I were able to create a program that would allow me to clone MVP cards and donation items as much as I want, I could sell them for whatever price I wanted. If I got 5 people to do this with me, I could completely ruin the game's economy in a month or so. By cloning MVP cards and items such as fset and other items that are very good, and nearly everyone has there would be no way to root out who bought items from me and my cronies, and who earned their items in a benign manner. From that point, there are three options that the GMs can take 2 of which will most likely lead to closing the server, and one which will result in the loss of 75% of the player base.

Option 1: Leave everything alone, and ban the players who are illegally making items. My actions, though, have caused a positive chain reaction and does not require my presence or influence in any way to continue destroying the server economy. People leave the server because everything is in such disarray, and the server closes.

Option 2: Close the server.

Option 3: Wipe the server. No refunds for anyone. Lots of people will leave (usually 60-75% from what I have always seen when this happens) because they put so much money into the server (or time) and they arent getting reimbursed for it at all. The server will survive, but it will be on hard times for a very long time.

This is all an example of common causality between servers, no matter what server, or who is in charge, or who plays it, or how it is run. What I am trying to point out by all of this is that "if 'A' happens, then 'B' 'C' and/or 'D' WILL happen".

If you open castles the economy will fluctuate a little bit, you can let it work itself out or you can balance it by making a chest cap and lowering drop rates. If you open more castles, other guilds will have a better chance of getting castles, that alone will help them get more members (even if the drops are lowered). If you open up more castles, there will NOT be a monopoly for many reasons:

1) a normal WoE time participation for the large guilds in this server is 25. 30 at best. the most they could hope to defend is 2 castles. By splitting their forces they decrease their chances of keeping both castles, not by 50% as seems logical, but closer to 75%.

1 B) 2 castles is not a monopoly.

2) Instead of the top 5 guilds fighting over three castles (do NOT confuse fighting with competition), they will each have one for themselves and will be trying to take one from one of the other 4 "good" guilds. While this is happening smaller guilds can either

a)attack while they are split and confused

b)if that fails, go take another castle and safeguard it

3) Opening more castles will also make larger guilds (and unfortunately smaller ones) loose some of their members. most of the deserters are dissatisfied members, or people who feel they dont belong. These members will create their own guilds, and join up with their friends. Larger guilds get weaker, while smaller guilds gain members (more than they loose) and power. Eventually the small guilds of today are the big guilds of tomorrow.

And im sorry to spoil your happy bubble of sunshine and flowers, but breaking on this server is mostly luck when it comes down to it. Once again I will point out that when your posibilty percentage of breaking an emp is anything other than 50-50, skill mostly goes out the window. When it is below 25% nothing matters, the last person who hits is the lucky person who breaks it. With the way WoE on this server is right now, there are 10 SinX (im just counting the SinX, NOT everyone attacking, so my numbers are going to be LOWER than the actuality) at any given moment attacking the emperium. You have a 10% chance of being the last person to hit. In your eyes you have a 90% chance to loose. So yes, breaking on here is luck for the vast majority of the issue. You have people who continuously break emp. I have noticed that. I have also noticed that most guilds have 2 breakers on an emp. Breaking down the numbers you get: 50% chance you will be the one to break it between you and your partner, somewhere around a 25% chance that your guild will get the castle, and of course factored in there is the 10% chance of you being the last hitter (and 10% also for your partner). So when a particular guild gets a castle, there is only 1 in 2 people who's name will show up as breaker. That gives only the illusion of consistency in breaking. The less breakers in a guild, the more chance you will be the one to break the emp when it is your guild that gets a castle. Thats luck, not skill. And as for the guilds that have one breaker, then every time they get a castle, guess who will be the one to break the emp? The fact that 1 in 2 people break the emp shows they have a consistency in their guild for breaking. But for them getting the castle, it is luck (although they have a higher chance if there are mre than one breaker for their guild hitting the emp).

As for you thinking I said I wanted an easy way to break the emp, that is not true. You are either twisting words or misinterpreting. I was merely stating that, as the saying goes, "easier said than done". Its easy to say "be the last person to hit the emp". It is harder to ACTUALLY BE the last person to hit the emperium.

As for the answer to your oft posted, and oft ignored question. This is the only server (out of the 80+ I have ever played on) that I have ever had any trouble using a small population of people to gain a castle. When it is one guild attacking another, you stand a better chance of winning the fight than when you have 1 guild (yours) vs. 9 enemy guilds (everyone else) vs. 1-2 defending guilds. then break that all down into an FFA. Simply put one on one, I can compete with many guilds. One on eleven is much more impossible odds.

Someone ( I think devotion) asked to come up with "FRO" solutions to WoE. If you read carefully, I have addressed nearly all problems (all of the ones that can actually be controlled, I have given a proven solution for) that have been stated. The answers are in there. If there are still some things unanswered tell me, and I will find you a solution. I was a GM on quite a few of the servers that I played on. I know a thing or two.

Dude, lrn2ro... More castle = more random breakers getting castle = more woe drops = item prices dropping = noty we should reduxe castle during american woe, like remove alde castle making more guild willing to team work and higher woe drops

Dude, learn to spell.

You are only looking at one facet of of a multi-sided dice. Your... equation, if you can call it that, is flawed in a few critical ways. First of all, you are assuming too much. You assume that there is just going to be some random breaker who will break the emp and then nobody will attack the castle for an hour, and if your guild cant handle one SinX, then you dont deserve the castle. Item prices will drop (if you dont implement chest caps and reduced drop rates), but they will stable out and they wont drop all that much. Everyone keeps saying "it usually takes about a year for you to be adequately geared". I ask you, how many people actually want to be semi-bored and useless for a whole year when you can go to nearly any other server and reach the same level in a few weeks?

As for another thing, you contradict yourself in your goals (and inadvertently, I assume, prove me right... or atleast disprove yourself, which helps me anyways). You say that you dont want WoE drops to increase. To quote you "More castle = more random breakers getting castle = more woe drops = item prices dropping = noty" and then you say you want to increase woe drops by removing a castle from WoE. So what do you want? do you want drops to decrease? do you want there to be less castles, which by your logic will increase drops? Or do you want a balance. A way for guilds to get what they want, improve competition between guilds of similar skill level, improve player interest in the server, and server population. If you want that, my idea is a way to achieve it.

Edited November 24, 2009 by RoMe

[Apo]

I keep wondering why you type so much nonsense without knowing the server itself, you're nobody here only Forsaken Ragnarok Online veterans has been answering to your post and all disagreed. You're just shoveling your own self in a hole deeper and deeper everytime you and reply with your Low Rate 5000+ players community WoE versus a (100 Assassin Cross Breaking at random places and two guilds which manage to stand up but are allied). So keep your ignorance out of this topic.

[RoMe]

I keep wondering why you type so much nonsense without knowing the server itself, you're nobody here only Forsaken Ragnarok Online veterans has been answering to your post and all disagreed. You're just shoveling your own self in a hole deeper and deeper everytime you and reply with your Low Rate 5000+ players community WoE versus a (100 Assassin Cross Breaking at random places and two guilds which manage to stand up but are allied). So keep your ignorance out of this topic.

So what you just seem to suggest is that no matter how good, or logical, an idea someone has it doesnt mean anything to the staff because they havent been playing for a long time. Talk about ignorance. So if I played for a year, and then started this topic, everyone would just gain half a brain and agree with me? I assume that is what you are saying (mostly because that IS what you are saying).

And once again, this you give another reply with NOTHING to say against my arguments. NO evidence, facts, or ideas. All you try to do is insult me, and try to discredit me. Both of which arent working too well. Yes I noticed that only the people who have castles, have the gears, and the grip on who gets the gears are the ones disagreeing with me. But they, like you, tend to offer NO SUPPORT to their argument. They just say "what you say wont happen" and leave it at that. Devotion did have that story to back up their claims, but my last post already dealt with that, and I dislike repeating myself.

And just so you can have your facts straight, I dont play on low rates. Well ive played on 2. iRO and gotRagnarokOnline. Other than that this is probably one of the lowest rate servers I have played.

As for the rest of your post, it isnt very clear, so i wont try to respond to until you clarify.

[Rayray]

I have to read your novel of a post again but none of what you posted there answered my question. Why the hell did you make a woe oriented guild when you yourself is new to this server and you know yourself that you cannot fight, or compete or whatever term you want with the state of the older guilds right now? I asked WHY.

and I have to answer one post you made that made me laugh.

"There are 20 castles (30 with WoE 2.0) in the game, there are maybe 3 guilds (as of now) with the possible ability to end up with 2 castles. Once again for the sake of argument, lets say that those three guilds do end up with 2 castles at the end of WoE. 2 x 3=6, 20 - 6=14. Thats 14 castles left for smaller guilds. I would also like to point out to you that the probability of any of those guilds ending up with 2 castles is between 25-30%. A monopoly cannot happen this way. Out of 10 years of RO gameplay experience, I have only seen monopolies on servers with castle restrictions."

Of course no monopoly will happen, since monopoly isn't needed if we do that. and even if we reduce the drop rate, we have what, less than 10 WoE active guilds. so they get each a castle. If we will aim for drops, we will talk to everyone and just stay out of everyone's castle and we will all go home happy. and we just wait for it. Out of your 10 years of RO gameplay experience, you cannot even do math.

and again, of course the bigger guilds WILL target the smaller ones. what makes you think they won't? because they are busy defending? why would they defend? If I would have to choose on which to attack, I won't definitely choose the ones that I know can defend because they got a big guild, ill choose the castle that a smaller guild holds or a guild that has the same experience as your guild. oh and sorry but you are wrong at that assumption. You are thinking that they will do what you expect them to do because it has happened in your 80+ servers that you played.

and your other argument on why you compared this server to others is because of a causality chain? we are talking of WoE. why did you use an example of duping items on a server?

you wanted a one on one situation on woe. That is boring, I don't know why you like it :p

we got a max 500 population on this server. Opening more castles will not ever help with that kind of population. And we won't open a new castle just because a new guy and his new guild cannot get a castle when most of us can. Unless you can provide a good argument, the one that can ACTUALLY be seen in THIS server and not OTHERS. ok to be fair to you, if ever the server's population can get to 800-1k, I would think that opening one more castle might help, but opening them all, hell no.

my guild doesn't have the castle, we only got it ONCE. I got my gear by not donating. and I disagree with you. You wanted to get a castle so fast dude. I really suggest you make yourself stronger first. You say you had a hard time getting a castle in this server than others right? that means whatever tactic or strategy you used before cannot work in a competitive woe like here.

Edited November 24, 2009 by calintz1218

[Apo]

With my 67 years of RO gameplay I can tell you that server doesn't require what you ask. just because made guild which cant get curent castle we should add more? What will be the difference? You wont be able to defend it anyways so you'll just make it worst. And my mindset wasn't to monopolize WoE drops but most likely to bring larger mount of people in the same castle. atm payon and pront are the only castle wanted and you get waves of 10+ breakers rushing in alde evertime its token, remove alde and those breakers will be hopeless in a castle with huge defense making them have to join them and or make their own guild to take over the castle. that dooesnt mean that the guild will suceed so take that out of your mind. But in january Trans will be back so probably things wiill sound like Pront = Trans Payon = RM and AlDe = Influ or w/e? Those are my personal though so dont feel insulted by my previsions. Thous getting castles will be harder giving more competition.

[Devotion]

To get a better feel of what we're talking about, temporarily join a smaller guild who WoE's to take castles. Even a guild like RIP, who is capable fo breaking, cannot defend against the two largest guilds, or even a smaller party if they have a devo and a good breaker. That's how it is here. Skill really matters, that's why Trans went so far, but numbers matter too, they matter a lot, and so does gear.

We can open a castle without drops, but no one would be interested. We're opposed to this because we want a stable economy, and we know from past experiences that this sort of thing will plunge it into hell. These powerful items aren't to be dished out lightly.

[RoMe]

Of course no monopoly will happen, since monopoly isn't needed if we do that. and even if we reduce the drop rate, we have what, less than 10 WoE active guilds. so they get each a castle. If we will aim for drops, we will talk to everyone and just stay out of everyone's castle and we will all go home happy. and we just wait for it. Out of your 10 years of RO gameplay experience, you cannot even do math.

and again, of course the bigger guilds WILL target the smaller ones. what makes you think they won't? because they are busy defending? why would they defend? If I would have to choose on which to attack, I won't definitely choose the ones that I know can defend because they got a big guild, ill choose the castle that a smaller guild holds or a guild that has the same experience as your guild. oh and sorry but you are wrong at that assumption. You are thinking that they will do what you expect them to do because it has happened in your 80+ servers that you played.

and your other argument on why you compared this server to others is because of a causality chain? we are talking of WoE. why did you use an example of duping items on a server?

you wanted a one on one situation on woe. That is boring, I don't know why you like it :p

we got a max 500 population on this server. Opening more castles will not ever help with that kind of population. And we won't open a new castle just because a new guy and his new guild cannot get a castle when most of us can. Unless you can provide a good argument, the one that can ACTUALLY be seen in THIS server and not OTHERS. ok to be fair to you, if ever the server's population can get to 800-1k, I would think that opening one more castle might help, but opening them all, hell no.

my guild doesn't have the castle, we only got it ONCE. I got my gear by not donating. and I disagree with you. You wanted to get a castle so fast dude. I really suggest you make yourself stronger first. You say you had a hard time getting a castle in this server than others right? that means whatever tactic or strategy you used before cannot work in a competitive woe like here.

First off, as of this moment there are only 10 guilds yes. MORE will form if they have an opportunity of getting a castle. It will not stay at 10 guilds for the rest of the time this server is up. You are thinking in terms of NOW, and trying to apply them to the future.

Second, you are contradicting yourself. You say that with 20 castles everyone will get their own pick, then you say that larger guilds will attack smaller ones for a castle. If there are more than enough castles to go around, then they wont have to attack smaller guilds, unless they wanted to, but if they did, they leave their other castle open to attack.

I used duping items as an example of a causality chain. It was one of the easier to explain (hence I chose it so you could understand it) how events unravel. WoE is a bit more complicated than duping items and would have required a larger explanation, of which Im sure you wouldnt want me to make.

You accuse me of being close-minded, which I am not, and then you tell me to close my mind to everything but THIS server. To ignore everything ive seen in near 10 years of RO game play, to focus on this server. So do you want me to be as close-minded as you? I cannot provide an example of my idea that can be seen in this server unless you actually DO what I suggest. Until that happens, I must be open-minded (of which I have been nothing but) and use my experience and examples obtained from other servers in similar situations.

500 population isnt an excuse to have 3 castles. Ive been on servers where the population was 300-400 at best, all castles were open and there were 30+ WoE capable (and active) guilds fighting for castles. That alone proves that more castles leads to the development of more guilds in WoE. More guilds induces more competition between them. Ive also had this argument on another server of 500 players. They did what I said, and their population doubled in 4-6 months. They have, last I checked, 100+ WoE active guilds with 3-4 guilds fighting over a castle. That is a competition, not this chaos you strive to prove is orderly.

Its not that I want a 1v1 situation in WoE so much as I dont want the current 1v11 situation. I would prefer 2 or 3 on 1, personally. Of course, im sure you dont want anything like that in WoE because it would take SKILL for you to get what you want, instead of crossing your fingers that you are the last one to hit before time runs out for WoE.

to quote you "my guild doesn't have the castle, we only got it ONCE. I got my gear by not donating. and I disagree with you. You wanted to get a castle so fast dude. I really suggest you make yourself stronger first. You say you had a hard time getting a castle in this server than others right? that means whatever tactic or strategy you used before cannot work in a competitive woe like here."

The tactic I used before is the one you are so fond of suggesting. It started off with me breaking emp last-second so I got my guild name broadcast through the server. That got me more members. With more members I was able to attack smaller, similar guilds head on and take their castle from them. With a reputation for consistency in getting a castle for WoE I was able to gather even more members to my guild. Eventually I was able to defend against nearly any guild in the server, even when they combined forces.

Secondly in this part of the argument YOU DO NOT HAVE A COMPETITIVE WOE in this server. You have a chaotic scramble of people trying to get a castle, with 2 lucky guilds who manage to get one at the end. Chaos isnt competition, luck isnt competition, lack of skill isnt competition. That is what WoE is here, not competition. The only thing you are competing against in WoE is the odds of you even getting a castle, let alone ending up with one.

There, I made this short. Just for you.

To get a better feel of what we're talking about, temporarily join a smaller guild who WoE's to take castles. Even a guild like RIP, who is capable fo breaking, cannot defend against the two largest guilds, or even a smaller party if they have a devo and a good breaker. That's how it is here. Skill really matters, that's why Trans went so far, but numbers matter too, they matter a lot, and so does gear.

We can open a castle without drops, but no one would be interested. We're opposed to this because we want a stable economy, and we know from past experiences that this sort of thing will plunge it into hell. These powerful items aren't to be dished out lightly.

I agree with you that skill matters. But once again, crossing your fingers and hoping you are the one to hit and break the emp, out of 10 other people is not skill, but luck. Numbers increase your luck in getting the castle. And yes, without the proper gear, you dont stand a chance. But once again, I ask, why should I wait around 8 months to get the gear I need when I can join another server and do it in a few weeks at the least? As for my SinX, it is fully geared, I dont need anything else. Gear is not the issue I have. My issue is the lack of skill needed to get a castle.

I never suggested you open a castle that does not drop anything. I said if you are worried about your economy when you open these castles, you can make a chest cap so that no matter how long you hold a castle, you can only get a certain number of chests per day; and to lower the drop rate to something feasible.

Edited November 24, 2009 by RoMe

[Devotion]

Quick answer to your question is: that's how it works here. And people do that here because they think it's worth it.