Woe

[RoMe]

im sure this has come up before, but I think WoE needs to have a few more castles available for every day. Take WoE on Fridays for example. You have 7-10 guilds fighting over one castle...

Players only want to join guilds (for the most part) who will be able to give them castle drops (and this is a rule of thumb for all servers). With 15 or so guilds fighting over 3 castles, it makes it less than impossible for new guilds to attain one. Thats why there are so many castles per town to begin with. All the long established "pro" guilds get to fight it out in Prontera, while the rest of the guilds for an hierarchy in the lesser cities. Im not saying that opening all the castles would be a good idea, but maybe opening 3 per city to help increase the chance of a newer guild getting a castle.

Essentially, guild members want salary and/or castle drops. with only 3 castles up for WoE new guilds dont get castle drops, people leave the guilds, and you end up with the entire server in one of the top 5-10 guilds. Adding more castles to WoE will in turn encourage the growth of new guilds, thereby creating diversity and an equal chance for all to have fun at a level of play that suits them. This also creates the chance for what can only be called evolution. A guild with a territory attracts more members, more members = better fighting power (usually), guilds advance the ladder and begin to take on bigger better guilds. this forces the "pro" guilds to keep an eye on everyone below them unless they want to be ousted from their perch.

So essentially, it could be said that more territory in WoE = better competition between guilds.

[Cirrus]

There's something called a suggestion forums.

And with the degree of how good our WoE drops are, I disagree.

[RoMe]

the drop rates can be changed.

If new guilds cant get members because a guild cannot attain a castle, then new guilds will die out,

and you will only be left with the top 5 guilds in the server getting the drops. Guild monopolies are a big turn off

when it comes to picking a server to play on. And since it is so easy to change to a server with all cities open,

I wouldn't expect a server that has 3-4 castles open to grow very much. Once a small group of guilds controls the WoE for long enough, people who arent in those guilds wont see much of a reason to play. First you will see people

on less and less, and then they wont see any point to stay on the server at all (usually people stay to talk to friends, but once those friends stop being on regularly those bonds break and die) and move somewhere else. Eventually

the population dwindles and the game becomes no fun.

Ive seen it happen so many times before, its actually quite frightening. Every server ive played on that had WoE restrictions such as these have all closed down in the end. Every. Single. One.

If you want to look at it another way, take this view.

All the established guilds are full, and since they are the only ones getting castle drops, people dont usually leave their guild on a regular basis. In time, all of the members of those guilds are fully geared. Once people start leaving because other servers offer everything this one does, but 4x as many castles, you will see your donations dwindle. Once everyone has left except for the 150 or so that are fully geared and have no need to donate, you stop getting money (almost entirely). No money = no server. People will donate, of course, to keep the server up, but they will eventually get bored with the way things have turned out, and leave too... or stop donating.

This is how it has happened, every time I have seen it. All from a problem that is sooo easily fixed. With no donation exclusive items, there is no motivation for anyone to donate (apart from instant gratification). With 3-5 guilds controlling WoE, there is no incentive for players in smaller guilds to play on the server at all. If you take a look at other servers, all of them have all castles for WoE and WoE 2.0 open. Most either have special items for donators (that are not OP'd. And some of them have items that are easily obtained, and do the same thing as those exclusive items, but they only look different) or have no donation items at all (these servers dont usually last long).

In short, WoE is one of the most exciting parts of the game, and it is what attracts a lot of new players to a server. New players = more donation. Nobody likes a restricted WoE (except for the players in power).

Just thought I'd point all of this out. I like this server and dont want to see things that have happened to other servers, happen to this one.

As for how good your WoE drops are... it doesnt matter. They could give you God mode or something, but if only 3 or 4 groups of people have a chance of obtaining them, and the same group of people keeps a lid on them, nobody else will want to play after a while. Good WoE drops only attract people if they have a chance of getting them. Without a hope of becoming powerful in the server, people will eventually stop playing.

Edited November 20, 2009 by RoMe

[Terroryst]

The amount of castles are fine. Less castles = more competition to get one. More warfare, more fun, right?

[Perishable]

Indeed.

Edited November 20, 2009 by Perishable

[RoMe]

only fun if you can manage to get one. 8 guilds in one castle isnt exactly the funnest thing ever.

And as I stated before, it makes it nearly impossible for smaller guilds to attain a castle. All the territory holding guilds are full, small guilds disband, people loose interest in playing after a while.

[Levis]

I disagree, 2 years ago we had only 1 Castle and it was really funnier. (No really important to get drops, since there were no Auroras and such) Best time in fRO ever in my opinion.

[Anarii]

One, two castles at most for American WoE would give the highest intensity, but seeing as there's three now the third won't be revoked. There's also been other topics suggesting to lower the castles, all have been rejected.

as for increasing castle numbers..big no.

[Terroryst]

only fun if you can manage to get one. 8 guilds in one castle isnt exactly the funnest thing ever.

And as I stated before, it makes it nearly impossible for smaller guilds to attain a castle. All the territory holding guilds are full, small guilds disband, people loose interest in playing after a while.

Smaller guilds have attained castles though, they are just properly equipped, but you can't now complain that because of their gears they got castles. You shouldn't be WoE'ing if you aren't prepared.

[RoMe]

lol, im not complaining because they are geared. I can break an emp in 5 secs flat, i have no trouble there.

Im merely pointing out something that has been the cause of many servers shutting down, that had likewise restrictions implemented. There is a reason nearly all servers have all castles open.

Also, when you have 10 SinX, each from different guilds, all attacking the emperium at the same time, it doesnt take skill to break, it takes luck. Pure luck. All you have to do is hope that your hit is the one that puts it over the edge.

Edited November 21, 2009 by RoMe

[Devotion]

So essentially, it could be said that more territory in WoE = better competition between guilds.

The opposite of this is true. There are about 20 castles. You say there are 15 guilds fighting for three. What happens when we open them all? Zero competition. Other servers can do as they want, but here our most powerful and valuable items come from castles. Once our population increasesto a certain amount and remains steady we're not ready to open more castles.

It takes many people, myself included, up to a year or more to get well established with good gear, at which point you can join a larger guild. Many of the people breaking castles at the moment are soloing with a devo or are a small group of very good players who know what they're doing. Influence and RM are the large dominant guilds, RIP is a small but prominent guild, and then there are smaller guilds like Midnight, and then you have the straglers from various others.

[Rayray]

It is more fun having to fight for the castle to be honest. I do not like the idea of opening up more castles since people could just make his own guild, try to solo a castle that has no defense whatsoever and get all the drops for himself. and yes smaller guilds can actually get the castle once in a while if you know how to(mine got euro castle at least once) so yeah it's been fun. and if you think you cannot become "powerful" without getting drops, then I suggest you take your time and get the feel of the server first.

WoE drops is not exactly always the reason why people WoE too. Others join woe to get ladder kills if I'm not mistaken(since ladder prizes are good too). As for me, I WoE for fun. If I get a woe drop then it's good, if not then at least I had fun. If we open more castles, we lose that factor.

[Gilgamesh]

There is a reason nearly all servers have all castles open.

dude...XD

[RoMe]

dude...XD

wow, intelligent post there...

@devotion

I said that at the moment there are about 15 good sized/large guilds fighting for three castles. There is only this small number because there are so few castles open. You open more, more guilds will form, more people will begin to refer friends, and in turn, competition between guilds will increase.

If you guys would like an interesting example of what I mean, then lets look at history. A fortress is built at a key point of interest to a country. Soldiers are stationed at the fortress to defend it. In order to supply the fortress, a road is built to it. Following the road are masters of important trades. After the tradesmen come the entrepreneurs, who build an inn a pub, and a few other luxury good shops. Coming with them are their families. Eventually you have a small city that continues to grow. In a century, you end up with London, the seat of power to one of the most powerful nations in the modern world, and arguably the most powerful in the ancient.

Point is, opening up something for people will lead to a cascade of growth. More castles = more fun at WoE for lesser guilds. That leads to more guilds being formed. More guilds will also be a result of more people joining the server. More guilds will also mean more competition.

@calintz

No, WoE drops are not the only reason people WoE. But I wonder how many people would show up if they were told they wouldnt get their salary, they werent getting any drops, and they had to supply themselves (and that kills didnt count toward PvP ladder standing)?

To put it in numbers, I did this on a different server (a few of them actually). I offered no salary for WoE, and did not give out drops (the drops were all DBs, BBs, and Ygg leafs anyways, so nobody wanted them). I had a guild of 70 people, only 13 showed for WoE with consistency. Out of a server with over a steady population 1,000 players, only 13 would WoE for no salary or drops. on another server it was 15 out of 1500+. On the next it was 9 out of 1200 (3 of those chars were controlled by me btw). So to put it bluntly, the numbers show that little more than 1% of people will willingly WoE for no salary or drops.

Most other servers dont have PvP ladder items, so that is not a factor. But after you get it, there would be no incentive to WoE for most people.

I am one of those people who WoE because I enjoy it. I couldn't care less about the drops. I always let my guild mates have at them (except for those select few servers I experimented on).

[Devotion]

Any castle additions we do will be slow. London wasn't built in a day, pun intended. I WoE with the best and I see RM easily manages to take two castles, and unless the lesser guilds band together atm, they have no real opposition. I don't see the 15 large guilds you speak about. Therefore I'm not convinced of your idea.

[Cirrus]

3 castles during American WoE is already a bummer. Not to mention an otherwise rare item economy got trashed because not much would care about taking a castle held by 2-3 guilds who have joined forces, and they got the commerce up to 100. Not saying it has it's "good" sides (that the better items became more available to the "less powerful" people.

Heh, you can't break an emp in 5 seconds flat, alone. Take time to know the server. Maybe, something that could work on another won't really work in this one, perhaps? The server gave people reasons why they should WoE. As Terroryst has said, if you want to WoE and be good at it, work for it. The rewards you will reap are good. Opening a few more castles won't solve the competition because frankly, a single SinX, or two, can roll a "lesser" guild if they wanted to. This would only mean more "fun" and riches for the bigger guilds who defend and send out their best to take castles.

For the record, all the people in my guild of 20+ WoE w/o salary, promise of drops, not even basic supplies. Although half are busy with school, we WoE for fun, challenging the big guilds who team up to hold a castle. To prove it's not impossible, and maybe, just show people that it can be done, and that they can also do it with their own guild.

[Nyanko]

I say no. We got enough drops floating around, I actually miss when it was rare to have a emperium aura. The castles are fine. Btw there's only about 5 big guilds or so.

[Antagonist]

The opposite of this is true. There are about 20 castles. You say there are 15 guilds fighting for three. What happens when we open them all? Zero competition. Other servers can do as they want, but here our most powerful and valuable items come from castles. Once our population increasesto a certain amount and remains steady we're not ready to open more castles.

It takes many people, myself included, up to a year or more to get well established with good gear, at which point you can join a larger guild. Many of the people breaking castles at the moment are soloing with a devo or are a small group of very good players who know what they're doing. Influence and RM are the large dominant guilds, RIP is a small but prominent guild, and then there are smaller guilds like Midnight, and then you have the straglers from various others.

I agree, just because one has a large guild doens't mean they can monopolize the economy. And I stand firm on the fact that small guilds can make a big difference like my guild. I have an average of 13-15 people on a good day, and my guild has no problem holding and getting castles, nor do we have the trouble breaking the largest guild whom is defending a lone castle. Its all about the players, and if you can get a group of good players, geared or not, you can excel in war.

3 castles during American WoE is already a bummer. Not to mention an otherwise rare item economy got trashed because not much would care about taking a castle held by 2-3 guilds who have joined forces, and they got the commerce up to 100. Not saying it has it's "good" sides (that the better items became more available to the "less powerful" people.

Heh, you can't break an emp in 5 seconds flat, alone. Take time to know the server. Maybe, something that could work on another won't really work in this one, perhaps? The server gave people reasons why they should WoE. As Terroryst has said, if you want to WoE and be good at it, work for it. The rewards you will reap are good. Opening a few more castles won't solve the competition because frankly, a single SinX, or two, can roll a "lesser" guild if they wanted to. This would only mean more "fun" and riches for the bigger guilds who defend and send out their best to take castles.

For the record, all the people in my guild of 20+ WoE w/o salary, promise of drops, not even basic supplies. Although half are busy with school, we WoE for fun, challenging the big guilds who team up to hold a castle. To prove it's not impossible, and maybe, just show people that it can be done, and that they can also do it with their own guild.

Hi ^_^ ur guild is my guild. And agreeing once more, the only reason why your stating this is because perhaps you and your sed guild want a chance at the drops yourself. If your going to war for the sole purpose of getting drops, you'll find it hard to enjoy yourself, just war for fun with friends, kill people and have a bomb. Who knows you might find yourself owning WoE then.

[SketchyAngel]

Uh, Pink, Teal, White, Black, Red Emp Auras are still unreleased. I don't really understand why there can't be more castles, maybe even in Euro WoE?

[Nyanko]

Uh, Pink, Teal, White, Black, Red Emp Auras are still unreleased. I don't really understand why there can't be more castles, maybe even in Euro WoE?

Teal and white should be a GvG drop to match the ruckys IMO.

[Gilgamesh]

wow, intelligent post there...

IT has a lot of meaning on it...I don't want to create an essay for you.

Edited November 21, 2009 by Gilgamesh

[Devotion]

ahem anyways...those emp auras are for when we DO open more castles. If you want more castles, then vote and write reviews on ratemyserver.net

[RoMe]

ahem anyways...those emp auras are for when we DO open more castles. If you want more castles, then vote and write reviews on ratemyserver.net

What is it going to take for you guys to open more castles?

[Rayray]

If we get more players obviously. From what you are actually stating, you do want to get WoE drops faster am I right? You are new to the server, I suggest you do what everybody else did, hunt for their gears or whatever else they did to get stronger so they can WoE. Suggesting to open more castles will NOT, I repeat, will NOT make lesser guilds have the opportunity to gain drops, it is the opposite actually. It will make the bigger guilds gain drops faster, trust me.

p.s. and on you breaking the emp 5 seconds flat.. well If you can do that, then we do not need another castle do we? you can just last minute and break it when woe is about to end, no problem there right?

and by suggesting another castle when almost everybody is fine with the way it is, it actually sounds like your guild cannot compete with most of the guilds out here in FRO. As we said, smaller guilds here actually got castles when they wanted to.

[RoMe]

If we get more players obviously. From what you are actually stating, you do want to get WoE drops faster am I right? You are new to the server, I suggest you do what everybody else did, hunt for their gears or whatever else they did to get stronger so they can WoE. Suggesting to open more castles will NOT, I repeat, will NOT make lesser guilds have the opportunity to gain drops, it is the opposite actually. It will make the bigger guilds gain drops faster, trust me.

You could take away WoE drops and I would still be arguing this point. Albeit not to the same degree because then I couldnt make a salary out of castle drops. This is one reason it is so hard for lesser guilds to get started and retain their members. For some reason, people think they deserve zeny/items/etc for WoEing. If they dont get a castle, they dont get drops. They dont get what they want, they leave. Eventually small guilds end up disbanding, leaving you with only the larger, established guilds.

In the begining, yes, larger guilds will get drops faster. But more guilds will form, and take castles over, gain more members and become powerful. Even large guilds can only hope to maintain 2 castles at a time with a relative chance of success. They will soon start competing for the more, shall we say, prestigious castles AKA Valkyrie castles. This is how it is in pretty much every other server. What castle you have shows how powerful your guild is.

To make another point (one that I am continually making). WoE is a large reason people play RO. It IS THE REASON they stay on a server. If WoE is no fun, they move. 3-5 guilds controlling WoE is no fun (except for those guilds). If you want to retain players, you have to make WoE interesting, or at least fair to all.

p.s. and on you breaking the emp 5 seconds flat.. well If you can do that, then we do not need another castle do we? you can just last minute and break it when woe is about to end, no problem there right?

Oh how original an idea! Ill bet nobody in the HISTORY OF THIS GAME has EVER thought of that [/sarcasm]. Just being able to target the emperium when there are 20 SinX and countless other classes attacking it is a chore in itself. Standing still for that long gets you killed.