Jae Posted July 4, 2009 Report Posted July 4, 2009 Alright this is a perspective of someone who constantly PvP's on a daily basis (if I'm lucky too). If a class that's based upon damage isn't able to cast the huge amount of damage that it's actually allowed too for example LK. That's the specific class that I actually main as my character that I play on a constant basis. I usually use 2 FBH FKing Shoes, 2 Pharoah Golden Valk Helmet, Thana TG TG Skeleton Worker for the most out put damage. This is included with 2 Mix A's or 2 Str Belts + 297 Str. That's the MOST damage you can get out of that class and I can reach 16-18k on Usakoring. There is no possible way to make someone run out of yggs with that kind of damage. I've also been trying to use Spiral Pierce, with 3 kiels if I may add, with 2 FBH. It can do 2.4k on people x5 that's 12,000 damage per hit. Now if a person on average has over 200k+ HP and I can carry a constant of 250 berries (which usually no one goes max damage no) It would be near IMPOSSIBLE to kill somebody in that manner. The only way we can actually "trick" someone is by making them THINK we're going to Coma them and forcing them to put on a shield that actually lowers there defense. I don't see in any manner how that could effect game play since it's been like that for a while. If I die to Coma it's because I was unable to switch to my proper shield that would have saved me from that effect. I also use Vital Strike, Spear Pierce, Spear Boomerang, and a few other essential skills. It still makes it almost impossible for me to kill somebody without being able to "coma" them. Now taking away a vital part of a classes build is just going to destroy that entire class COMPLETELY. Look at it this way it's as if putting a Muay Thai boxer against a regular Boxer. Which is going to win? The Muay Thai fighter, why? Because he has more potential then the other. You just wouldn't do it. I also ran a few tests on a few friends just now (maybe not more then 5 minutes before this post was made) and it took me literally 2-3 minutes to actually cast the Coma effect on them at 195 ASPD. Another example is the Assassin Cross class this class is actually MEANT for pure damage but it can also be killed off quite quickly since the most possible damage would be with 2 Daggers. This is how most people would see it as the most efficient way to kill another off. If you take away another way to honestly kill a person it just makes this class viable to be considered the worst class ever. How many people are actually considered the BEST TOP PVPER in the server because of this class? I really don't see anyone as the top PvP class member because of how balanced it USED to be. If you take away a Boxers left jab, what does he have left? A right straight but nothing to blind the left side while attacking another. It's always a give & take but taking away something that is actually essentially needed is just a dumb reason. Fix the root problem also from the Champion and the delay from the Asura. People complained about how Thanatos Throw Spirit Sphere was over powered, not many people complained. That was one of the most deadliest moves on the server and you took it away because it was CONSIDERED "OP". I didn't see much wrong with it now that I think about it since you've added a effect for the Champions with the Thanatos card to GIVE damage. That was fine it was a Give & Take. But now that you've actually taken away the only real chance to kill somebody is gone? I play with some of the most adept people on the Champion class (Crono, Unbreakable, Yukumaru, and Ascendant). When I fight them now it's like playing with a baby in it's crib punching it in it's face because they're so easily killed. It's not like someone is able to obtain a Thanatos Card in a matter of days to months. It takes a ton of time unless they donate for coupons, which in turn benefits the server honestly. I think the delay should be taken out and Root be put back as it was. Now that this class is utterly useless since you can't even force people into GTB because of Coma (which by the way is only a .04% chance if you use 4 LOD cards which in turn again ISN'T THAT HIGH. 99.96% chance to live and .04% chance to die... that's a fair trade.. lol) Being able to switch items through Root as well is just retarded. I have no trouble playing against the best players of that class with 1 hand because I have no worries as of anymore. Practice makes perfect if you want to perfect the class you need to put time and effort into it. Nothing happens over night. Coma with skills? I think this was an extreme bad decision. I could do 2.2k Spirals + use an LOD and Coma them magically because of the skill. That was funny because people actually get MORE mad. If they can SEE you using an Edge at least they have a chance to switch Shields. I have fought people the past 2 days and it just seems that everyone is getting more and more irritable since you can basically murder somebody with AD now. Even if you use Deviling/GTB/Edge. You can use Thanatos <-- Which in turn by the way is near impossible to get now a days. It's still extremely hard to kill somebody proficiently with this class. It's not hard to obtain Glistening Coats to FCP your self. People are just lazy. Now the Sonic Blow I found this as an "ok" update just it was way to nerfed. Nerfing a skill that caused the SinX class to be feared was a little unethical. I can understanding wanting to cool it down since in fact it was actually Over Powered. But I didn't mind since I just fought back anyway while mashing the Ygg Key. But maybe the Cool Down shouldn't actually be 2 seconds, maybe around .75 Second rather then 2. It just appeals more to people and it'll actually cool down peoples tempers. Now taking away Coma completely from a class that's like saying a GM shouldn't have his powers. Really now? Is that the best decision..? :)
Zero Posted July 4, 2009 Author Report Posted July 4, 2009 Basilica cannot be changed. fml I quit. Good luck with fRO, mainly in its condition now.
Genesis Posted July 4, 2009 Report Posted July 4, 2009 Jae, you haven't really proposed a solution. Noone has, all that has been said is. "X is wrong, fix it". Also Zero ( or Mike ), If you want to leave then leave, there is no need to make a farewell topic, then post a suggestion topic, later saying you are quitting. Make up your mind already. Again, doable suggestions are what we need, suggest things ( for example, restrictions or changes in cards ) that would help the situation. I'll let you know if it's physically doable or not. Basilica cannot be changed simply because of how it works ( note, these were changes done for RO, not custom changes exclusive to us, this is how RO works. We can customize it here and there but it is still RO ), it would cause more problems that it would fix ( not talking about class balance here ).
Zero Posted July 4, 2009 Author Report Posted July 4, 2009 Regardless, Basilica does not function like that in iRO, I will find another High Priest to cast it in PvP.
Jae Posted July 4, 2009 Report Posted July 4, 2009 Basically my solution is that you put Coma back to what it was. You take out the Coma for skills. Reduce SB down to .75 seconds of delay. Take out the Break of the Cloak/Shoe/Accessory in the Tarot Cards for Gypsy/Clown. Take out the delay that you put in for the skill Asura for the Champion class. That's what I'm proposing you do. My post should have made that pretty clear Jorge.
Millenia Posted July 4, 2009 Report Posted July 4, 2009 change bas to how it originally was, it didnt cause any class imbalance its fucked up. -.-
Genesis Posted July 4, 2009 Report Posted July 4, 2009 You must have not been paying attention. All these changes were tested by theultramage, Playtester and L0ne_W0lf from the eA Dev Team.
Genesis Posted July 4, 2009 Report Posted July 4, 2009 Basically my solution is that you put Coma back to what it was.1. You take out the Coma for skills. 2.Reduce SB down to .75 seconds of delay. 3.Take out the Break of the Cloak/Shoe/Accessory in the Tarot Cards for Gypsy/Clown. Take out the delay that you put in for the skill Asura for the Champion class. That's what I'm proposing you do. My post should have made that pretty clear Jorge. 1. Test it again, the chances are close to 0, I've also commented on this before in a previous post. 2. It is roughly that with Soul Link. 3. That has been fixed for ~2 days now.
Terroryst Posted July 4, 2009 Report Posted July 4, 2009 Then we're fine. You guys just need to suck it up lol.
Genesis Posted July 4, 2009 Report Posted July 4, 2009 I just want to note, that I'd be happy to review valid suggestions made on addition/modifications of things. We could always give it a test run see how it does. I'll let this topic develop for a few days. *Edit* Again, the chance of coma was so high recently because we were using the older item database, we've updated it now.
Zero Posted July 4, 2009 Author Report Posted July 4, 2009 Sonic Blow is perfect as it is now. I finished killing a Champion with Envenom, equipped with a Book of Dead as a High Priest earlier. Here's the thing, classes with powerful offensive skills that require Usakoring in order to live through should have Coma absolutely removed from skill usages. I don't want to receive Coma while getting an Asura Strike. Another note, if you can at least remove the ability to receive Tarots and Pressure while in a Basilica, the skill will be a bit better than before. C'mon, if an Ahura Mazdah can be hidden in a normal Buckler through coding, you can obviously figure out how to tamper with skills enough to return them to their formal selves.
Terroryst Posted July 4, 2009 Report Posted July 4, 2009 Wait, what's the chance of Coma now? I was getting attacked with 2 edges by a sinx and I never got coma'd. Unless edge doesn't coma for sinx's. Also, fix sight please.
Genesis Posted July 4, 2009 Report Posted July 4, 2009 Sonic Blow is perfect as it is now. I finished killing a Champion with Envenom, equipped with a Book of Dead as a High Priest earlier. Here's the thing, classes with powerful offensive skills that require Usakoring in order to live through should have Coma absolutely removed from skill usages. I don't want to receive Coma while getting an Asura Strike. Another note, if you can at least remove the ability to receive Tarots and Pressure while in a Basilica, the skill will be a bit better than before. C'mon, if an Ahura Mazdah can be hidden in a normal Buckler through coding, you can obviously figure out how to tamper with skills enough to return them to their formal selves. You are talking about SQL, which accepts close to any entry as valid ( may it be a card, or an equip ). Skills are not like that, they intertwine with each other sadly, it's what we have to deal with. I fail to see how that is in anyway relevant to the topic at hand. Wait, what's the chance of Coma now? I was getting attacked with 2 edges by a sinx and I never got coma'd. Unless edge doesn't coma for sinx's. Also, fix sight please. What the card description says. For example, when the older database edge was casting coma at 40~ percent ( each hit, mind you ) that was fixed to what it is suppose to be ( I believe 1 or 3 percent )
Terroryst Posted July 4, 2009 Report Posted July 4, 2009 I guess he just had bad luck. Are you going to be fixing the Sight? It's really annoying how I have to resight every time they cloak, and that I can't uncloak them as I walk with it.
Millenia Posted July 4, 2009 Report Posted July 4, 2009 change bas to how it originally was, it didnt cause any class imbalance its fucked up. -.- You must have not been paying attention. All these changes were tested by theultramage, Playtester and L0ne_W0lf from the eA Dev Team. do they play the server do they know how pvp works here do we know what we class as balance. uhm, no. change bas back. it was perfectly fine as it once was. if it cant be changed, can i have a valid reason.
Genesis Posted July 4, 2009 Report Posted July 4, 2009 "Skills are not like that, they intertwine with each other sadly, it's what we have to deal with."
Zero Posted July 4, 2009 Author Report Posted July 4, 2009 You are talking about SQL, which accepts close to any entry as valid ( may it be a card, or an equip ). Skills are not like that, they intertwine with each other sadly, it's what we have to deal with. I fail to see how that is in anyway relevant to the topic at hand. Oh well I didn't know that much, I only mentioned it since you know, it was possible and ya know, people told me that if that was possible anything is. Well anyways though, removal of Coma from some classes would be the most adequate way to deal with this situation since as I said, lowering the chances too low in general for every class would still add the existing possibility of receiving coma from the powerful ones, and lower the chances for weak coma-dependent classes to kill.
Devotion Posted July 4, 2009 Report Posted July 4, 2009 For now, none. Let's see how it goes over the next couple of weeks. If we do end up removing coma from certain classes, can you be selective about the skills from which you remove coma, not the class? For instance, only remove it from AV, SB, BB etc? Or would you absolutely have to completely take it away from a class?
Millenia Posted July 4, 2009 Report Posted July 4, 2009 For now, none. Let's see how it goes over the next couple of weeks. If we do end up removing coma from certain classes, can you be selective about the skills from which you remove coma, not the class? For instance, only remove it from AV, SB, BB etc? Or would you absolutely have to completely take it away from a class? ... Weeks? No. I think the coma issue should be dealt with now by removing it from classes, and then see how it goes for a couple of weeks. A few days was enough to determine which classes are easily abused with coma.
Cool Guy~ Posted July 4, 2009 Report Posted July 4, 2009 ... Weeks? No. I think the coma issue should be dealt with now by removing it from classes, and then see how it goes for a couple of weeks. A few days was enough to determine which classes are easily abused with coma. Uhm.. were the asura delay planned? I was ganged by 4 guys and i just came with 2 edge and spam meteor assault and kill them with coma that was great :laughingsmiley:
Terroryst Posted July 4, 2009 Report Posted July 4, 2009 I was ganged by 4 guys and i just came with 2 edge and spam meteor assault and kill them with coma that was great :laughingsmiley: LOL.
