Ravage

Simple is genius, I agree with the suggestion. The suggestion supports what the sniper class already is/was instead of implementing complicated solutions. Snipers WERE naturally defensive with their skills via distance(knock back) & traps. Its attack skills' range is long enough to be used as defense against certain skills. However, they did lack in reducs without the shield. Something like 20% reducs from SB instead of a shield would probably sufficient with rebuffed traps? Also, I believe that sniper's attack power is lacking because its skills are not as overwhelming as skills that stack like SB/AV/SPIRAL/Magic; neither does it do insane amounts of damage like asura that you cant heal/ygg/seed/pot. The sniper's lack of attack power forces some snipers to use strategies that are inappropriate for a long ranged class. Because we try to make sniper into something it isnt, we've had to endure complicated solutions such as such as messing around with strip distance, one hand bows, bow that does strip, and i'm still waiting on the dagger..? I mean, its kind of fun, but does it work? Not really for everyone... I believe Snipers could be better for everyone by taking it back to the basics and supporting what it is.

I did not say you misunderstand because you dont agree. I said you misunderstand instead of differentiating you were comparing. You said it and keep showing in your examples. When you read my explanation, using comparing methods instead of differentiating, it will not make sense which means you misunderstand. Your not paying attention to what specific words mean, not even in what your saying... You even use the word "opinion" incorrectly. I made my battle scenario high rate oriented; is a fact not an opinion. You cant change the fact that I did it like that, you can only change how you perceive it. When you say you see my analysis as low rate oriented, that is an opinion. Dex affects strip, Incorrect or Correct? Thats just one, I never said I was always right. Yes, the number is actually almost exactly double on 55% reductions. But is 55% reductions the most one can wear or what everyone has? Your forgetting the possibility that those numbers are maybe from in game on a real LK, which usually has more reducts than 55%? This is what i mean about you comparing everything instead of differentiating. When your comparing, you assume that everyone is the same. You give a flat variable (55% reductions) to base your analysis. Instead of making many analysis for each class by differentiating how they are against eachother. How much does a sniper do VS 55% reductions and how much does a LK do VS 55% reducts is comparing. How much does a geared sniper do on a geared LK? How much does the LK do on the sniper? Thats differentiating. As a GM can't you do tests to produce facts instead of basing your opinion on speculation from experience? We all have experience, that never means we have had the same experiences or learn from them the same way.Thats a fact, not an opinion.

I agree. Tarot is worse than ranged strip with is variety of effects. Also, I've experienced that tarot happens much more often than strip from the sniper SB head in normal atk VS normal atk.

I agree! More routes to receive money for the server means more growth :D I don't mind alert pay, I have no issues with it. But those who try harder are more likely to succeed.

should this be moved to accepted? If not, I agree to it being changed! On a side note, im curious what map was its gonna be changed to? A custom one would awesome. If it doesnt work out, I got a map suggestion.

This is getting repetitive. Your conclusions are changing as you understand my arguments and are on the exact similar path as earlier responses from other people. In psychology we call this stereotypes. As people understand the same thing, they will all reach the same conclusion if their comprehension is suffice or similar. What I means is that your misunderstand what I'm saying. Your focusing too hard in arguing against my idea that your not understanding what your reading. Instead, your looking for something wrong in what i say. My explanation in how strip is also countered by dex is not low rate oriented or incorrect. Your also misunderstand how to balance. Balancing isnt always comparing, its also differentiating. You cant compare oranges and apples so you balance them through their differences. When considering balance on our server, we cant use "comparing" because we dont all weight the same against varying classes. Comparing is why the server implemented rediculous buffs in the weapons that have been getting nerfed in the end. What your doing is looking at how much damage each do on the same opponent and comparing their damage. My explanation of how stats work with strip among job classes is not a comparison. In a battle, your not looking at how much damage is done on the same thing compared to someone else. You look at how much damage one does on the other. Does a sniper/dex stalker do more damage on an LK than the LK does damage on a sniper/stalker? Not at all. 14k total damage from DS is not higher than 25k total that spiral pierce does when they battle against eachother. However, a sniper can do 70k total DS on a poring, and the LK does 60k total with spiral pierce. Have you seen AD(biochem) and HSCR (whitesmiet). Dex damage is NOT higher than either. Now remembering that other classes use a lower level strip compared to stalkers, do the math with the equations of strip and the normal dex that each class would have ON OUR SERVER. My stats explanation should make sense now. Your focused on stalkers and I believe what you mean is that my stats explanation will not counter Stalkers. Thats exactly my reason why we should not remove FCP. However, remember that other classes can use strip! Again, same path of changing conclusions.. FCP's duration does not only affect stalkers main strip strategy, but it also affect's other classes strip. You can keep the duration of FCP long enough to counter strip as a main strategy(stalkers), but short enough to allow strip to be used as a side strategy late in battle. Strip as a side strategy would be for classes stuck in a tight spot, meaning they will have a lengthy battle, which means they need an opportunity for different strategies eventually. As for bottles demands... The topic is balance, not saving the economy. I didnt know the economy needed saving. However, I'd like to argue that the people with FCP bottles can still use their bottles. And also, implementing bottles as a drop can always be delayed for until demand is higher than supply.

I agree with the above. Metal is a good choice. It goes with games good because the music portrays a story line or emotions. In this case battle/anger/"dai bish"! No words tho please so that it is acceptable to a wider audience. anger + words = Foul language or.. Words we cant understand (no hate from me but possible from others) Stories without words: Thor is like immortal - The Ducking Champs Also, metal is just awesome with games! It has a somewhat monotone or 8-bit feeling that feels like comfort food but doesnt sound horrible or flat. Good Example of "comfort music": Metal Zelda Theme P.S. They're not gay. Andres Segovia is a guitar legend they were trying to impress with their skills in that song..

I'm finally adding a warning to my long posts, LOL. You can read only the highlights to get the point. If you dont agree or need explanation, read the unhighlighted also. I think I know which part your at now! Its true that every class has access to strip! But remember that there are also varying levels of strip accessible to these classes. Also remember that the same level strip will have varying success chances among different builds against different builds. Now for "Who protects against strip" ... what? You make it sound like the only way you know how to counter strip is FCP from chemists. You dont need FCP to counter all these various strips to achieve balance. Thats why you still think strip is overpowered. Your forgetting about how stats and skills(besides FCP) counter against strip. Strip is balanced amongst every class against every class including those with no access to FCP. How would it be balanced even if there was less access to FCP? Eventhough fRO is technically different, strip's formulas are still the same i believe? The equations built into strip govern it's balance against varying job classes without FCP, even on our server. Strip(not full strip) Success Rate(%) = 0.2*(yourDex - targetDex) + 5*SkillLV + 5 The equations are clever and intelligent to be based on dex because every class has a suitable amount of dex for their needs to vary how strip should work for/against them. A world without abusing access to FCP would be like....... (melee build job class)Strip vs swordsman class(popular melee) : attack is equal to a swordsman's and defense is equal so damage is equal. Damage is equal due to similar builds. DEX is equal in the similar builds giving an average strip success rate. (dex build job class)strip vs swordsman class : attack less and defense less so damage is less. DEX is always higher in these situations. By using dex in the forumla for balance, they can be certain to give a higher strip chance. (melee)strip vs archer class(popular dex): attack more, defense more. Damage is more but dex is lower, strip success lower. (dex)strip vs archer class: attack equal, defense equal. Damage is equal so DEX is equal, strip success average. (melee)strip vs merchant class (FCP): attack is equal, defense is equal. Damage is equal and they have a skill to cancel all strip. (dex)strip vs merchant class : attack is more, defense is less. Damage is balanced and they have higher dex, merchant class has a skill to cancel strip. Strip does not ignore builds, thats what keeps it balanced no matter who has access to it. Thats how it is kept from being overpowered and uncounterable especially the lower level strips which is accessible to everyone. I still dont use FCP even with all the dex stalkers. However, I DO agree that we should not remove the easy access to FCP on our high rate server. With that aside, your mixing up FCP duration and accessibility to FCP. How does duration of FCP affect accessibility to FCP? It doesnt because they're completely different things. Duration will affect demand on FCP bottles, thats what conclusion you should have arrived to. Not less accessibility to FCP. Did you imagine that people would not be using FCP because they want to save their bottles since the duration is so short? Making FCP more available through scrolls is genius tho. You can keep the duration of FCP long enough to counter strip as a main strategy, but short enough to allow strip to be used as a side strategy late in battle. Add to that the balance that dex adds to strips mechanics among jobs.. Making FCP less abusable against strip by decreasing its duration and making it more available through scrolls to supply the demand. Heck, charge us vote tickets or make them farmable from the new monsters. P.S. This is why more feedback is appreciated, even better solutions. *edit* maybe not You also only know 1 way to counter strip? Read the response above. If you put together both your arguments, took in my explainations, you'd arrive to my conclusion. If you really did read the whole topic, including my whole original suggestion, i discussed making FCP bottles a monster drop to supply the demand? Instead of farming ingredients which is difficult.. or buying from botters which is expensive. We are already beyond that now tho.

Ahh thanks. Basically, you mean all the skills were originally designed and balanced with a stats system different from ours(low rate servers), therefore we need unique tweaks in our own mechanics and slightly different gameplay. Good point. I also agree that "strip should be a side strategy to use once in a while in a tight spot". I too said, "Even in the situation that a class were not reliant on it, its still meant to be an available strategy." However, you did not answer my question. I asked for the reason why FCP has the duration it does. Justify why we are using the duration of FCP we have. I understand that we need FCP; which is what you explained. Decreasing the duration does not mean we are disabling or removing FCP. I simply want to change the weight it contributes in balance against side strategies, not all strip; through tweaking FCP's duration a little. Currently, its too long to allow strip a chance to be used as a side strategy. With its current duration, strip only depends on a person's access to FCP. Its easy to provide unlimited FCP when you have access to it beacuse of the long duration. The current FCP duration is so long that it allows you to fight several battles completely immune to strip. There is a lot of opportunity to refresh FCP and become completely immune for another few battles within it's lasting duration. Where is the gap to use strip as a side strategy in EACH battle? We are only able to use strip, even as a side strategy when someone is not using FCP AT ALL or has no access to it. If FCP's duration lasted shorter, they can still use FCP. Strip as a side strategy can be considered when FCP runs out EVENTUALLY in each battle.

Awesome! I'm glad you agree with the FCP duration! And I see your point in us having strip. I remember, we could switch to dagger for strip before the fbow had level 10 inc weight. Daggers just became unable to switch to with increase weight 10 on bows. It was easier to card a dagger to suit strategic needs instead of not having daggers to apply other strategies than bow ones... A slotted dagger with level 10 inc weight sounds worth switching to isntead. It also will not affect the strength of the bow directly, only when bows are SOL against reducs does the dagger come into play. As for stun lock and using skid traps to get away. I've used that enough to find that its flawed and easy to kill a sniper's skidding away with bugs and flaws. View stun lock as a bug since sniper's were not meant to be as affected by it than it is! Have u been stun locked on the same cell as a melee character with anti-knock back? The trap ends up on them instead of us, leaving us still stuck! Even when they dont have anti-knock back, stun lock becomes an issue to the point where u cant even click on the character!! We dont need to get away all the time, but theres bugs for long ranged attack. I click on the opponent near me and the person on the edge of my screen is the one attacked?? I've seen every sniper do this. Not misclicks, bugs. Ny understanding is that sniper's traps were originally buffed indirectly with wind walker with the release of transcedent classes. Wind walker allowed us to step a few cells away faster to make a gap and actually get a trap down. It also helped snipers' field control by allowing them to move faster around the field. Endure will allow snipers to utilize its trap strategies by reinforcing wind walker. Even if you didnt take away strip, endure will help buff the nerfed traps. You dont have to choose between either, you can seperate them. [(Bow - Strip) + Endure] and [Dagger[4] + increase weight 10] You all gave me a better point. I think strip in the sniper bow should be replaced for a dagger! And endure added to the bow to buff traps. On a side note for whoever is still reading: Since i'm posting, i want to bring up another aspect for consideration. How do you give the poor a chance against the rich? The rich person will naturally be better equipped so you give the poor strategies and skills, like strip, to be able to counter someone with better gears. Poor doesnt mean noob.. what about people who got hacked but still love the game? FCP kills that balance too.

Thats a narrow point of view to understand overall balance. Your only viewing how stalkers are affected and how they are currently being used. Stalkers can be much better, and in return other classes too. Overall balance. Currently, stalkers are being made similar to LK, sinX, or sniper to be balanced against the respective classes. Exact same principles each time, making everyone atk/reducs based. I also understad that we are being forced to rely on gear for balance on ther server. I always thought builds made pros not donation items. What i mean is that builds, skills and stats are what make balance, not gear. Now about stalkers being "over reliant on strip"?? Who else would use strip then? Why is rogue/stalker the only class with strip in the skill tree? The idea that stalkers are "over-reliant" on strip is why your overlooking how FCP is invulnerable and under-estimating strip strategies. Now look at the bigger picture and consider how stalkers are not the only class that use strip. Even in the situation that a class were not reliant on it, its still meant to be an available strategy. The overall balance of classes is a big circle of advantage VS disadvantage against eachother, similar to elements. Everyone is not meant to be balanced in redux vs attack power because strategies(build/stat/skills) come into play in balance too. Keeping that in mind, have you ever considered that merchant classes are the only class meant to always have the opportunity to be completely immune against strip+breaking? Chemical protection is only available to chemists, and hilt binding to smiths. Since we can buy FCP bottles easily and make a biochem slave, that eliminates its exclusivity for balance. I believe this is what lead most to underestimate strip on our server. Furthermore, its duration is too long for how long battles last on our server. No windows open soon enough for people to use strip before they die. If your gonna leave it the same, what are your reasons why FCP lasts this long on our server?

Ahhh! You mis-understand why i say FCP is overpowered.... I say FCP is overpowered because it does not allow any window for strip before the stripper runs out of yggs and dies. After the FCP'd character wins, they can log and refresh FCP. It's duration is THAT long. Snipers strip works the same. Also, thank you for clarifying to me that strip duration is indeed affected by dex. I ended up looking at the equations for strip! Yes Dex can counter strip, but its possible to get more dex to also counter against high dex by sacrificing other stats. If you can strip everyone equally, you can just make a build thats strong against everyone deffensively and utilize strip to win. FCP would be the only variable keeping us alive against stalkers.. Unbalanced and overpowered if FCP were working to allow strip into play... As for strip's duration, i did the math! Its easy to get enough dex on a non dex build stalker to give you a large enough window of time to kill dex-type characters. Too short of a duration is meant to be a weakness. It can be remedied but with sacrifices as intended for balance. Strip is an advantage that needs a weakness also like everything else... Were limited in stats we can get so they can force onto us the principle of how advantages come with weaknesses to balance out. Thats how strip is kept from being over-powered. You can do the math to determine how much is enough. Thats how making builds always worked. Just because we have a max level of 255, were not immune to how stats affect balance. I do believe that modifying it's duration and accessibility will affect balance. 5 minutes does sound fair as a shorter FCP duration but I believe tests and research can be done beforehand so they get it right the first time.. After these changed we can somewhat predict how overpowered stalkers may become. Stalkers in general are currently not as reliant on builds and skills as they were originally. They are already being considered as somewhat overpowered because we can throw items at them and make them tanks no matter the build... I'm gonna read the stalker suggestions now.. Why? Nope :(! I think they just added strip to the bow instead.. I know i would rather have the option to make a quad strip shield dagger or something other than whats in the bow....

I agree, it does seem like stalkers vs snipers! My ideas sprung from how strip in sniper soaring bow is useless. I ended up looking at a bigger picture and it seems to keep getting bigger.. Now almost evey class can be related to this topic easily. A better point of view would be STRIP VS STATS(everyone) and how FCP affects that balance. And exactly! it would eliminate having to build a stripper! if builds weren't apart of balance, then we'd be pretty SOL..

I understand how critical FCP is against strip. However your missing a key factor in strip's mechanics for balance. Strip doesnt work on the first try against everyone because of dex. Dexterity is what determines the success of strip so that strip strategies would not be overpowered. Balance through stats and builds, not FCP. However, FCP is easy to abuse in our settings. FCP's duration is so long that there is no window of chance for strip. Therefore STATS do not come into play to balance strip amoung different builds as they should. Builds make pros, not items.. right? Ohh, good point! You gave me a lot of food for thought!!!! I started considering builds more.. I think I understand how dex and builds are meant to balance out themselves. Let me explain further... I believe strip is dependent on dex for balance because of every class uses dex but in different ways! If not, strip chance would be determined by items or not at all. If you cant counter a strategy, then it not balanced. As vit/str you have similar dex as melee builds which would give you the proper success rate intended against them which is pretty good and deadly! However, your strip would suffer against dex characters and be disadvantaged against them in return! As dex class, you could easily take out other dex classes. However you'd have a weaker build to survive against melee classes in return! Sounds fair since technically strip = quick death for everyone. Builds vary the most in dex and i believe they utilized that to determine balance. If FCP were not overpowered and abused, we can consider different builds and varying dex and how they determine balance on their own. Melee characters are who abuse FCP the most too! Making vit/str stalker strategies most affected by it. I believe thats why stalkers were given more reducs to be balanced. They should have fixed a stalkers way to balance the battle with strategy and builds, by fixing FCP instead of looking directly at the damage. For strip's duration, the lvl 10 strip actually does last very long even on dex characters. I have to sit it out for minutes in for_fild if i dont relog. More than enough time to be killed without gear. Its the level 1 strip thats included in cards and weapons that dont last long cause the duration is meant to also be able to be countered by dex. Strip 1 will work much stronger against melee, and since strip its not ranged it'll stay like that. P.S. sorry i talk a lot, I just try to be persuasive.