Suggestion to help cushion the economy

[sarduarkar]

It wouldn't raise the cost of items...

What he is saying is raises the value of the coupon. Meaning:

1 qpon = 25 mil zenny right now

raises in value ....

1 qpon = 50 mil zenny

[Yusuke]

It wouldn't raise the cost of items...

What he is saying is raises the value of the coupon. Meaning:

1 qpon = 25 mil zenny right now

raises in value ....

1 qpon = 50 mil zenny

Few months ago, 1 donation coupon was worthy of 100M zeny so now 30M per coupon doesn't look so good. coupons should have more value than that!

[Ryoji]

You guys seem to forget, this server also has a theme which plays to people playing.

Obtainable donation items [Not gears in specifc, but any npc item bought with donation coupons]

Are obtainable by donators and non-donators alike...

However, if you make it too hard non-donators will not likely be able to reach that status.

And it will distance even more, further then the current dream it is now for many players.

As for the current economy, I think it's fine.

There's a decent inflation of mvp cards, and players are maintaining belts and f.set prices.

Things are becoming affordable to those who have less, while the richer players aren't even buying.

So let them have their qpons, turning a few away for profit when they need to.

There is no real damage in that.

The only damage is making qpons near-unaffordable to the general public.

[AsoBark]

Hmmm, NO. The main source of coupon consumption is yggs, not f.set. And there is absolutely no inflation occuring atm. All the prices have infact decreased compared to 4 months ago whether it's yggs, wings, f.sets or MVP cards; get your facts straight before posting such selfish suggestios. My quess is that you ran out of FCP scrolls and are now desperately trying to make up stories to get more for less?

ps. WoE dropable items have always been extremely expensive and will remain to be unless all the castles are open for WoE so quit your QQing. kthxbai. :rolleyes:

:) btw, i just skimmed.

[Berserk.]

What Sard is proposing would raise the value of a donation coupon, Berserk. . In a free economy where the majority of the economy is controlled by private investors ( players) an item in high demand ( which coupons are) will increase/decrease in price depending on its flow. When coupons are injected into the economy ( via events/donations) there are more coupons in the economy thus, since they are easier to obtain ( aka cheaper) and the demand for them continues to stay high, people can sell them for less and still strike a profit. In Conclusion, what sard wants to do is diminish the amount of coupons in the economy thus raising its value going by the theory that the demand for said item will online increase ( which, it will).

You're neglecting the fact that our ingame economy is quite different than the real world economy. In the real world - lets pick U.S. for the sake of the arguement - the main currency is the dollar and it's numbers in terms of quantity is increasing every year thanks to the government and U.S. treasury. Meaning a constant increase in the amount of dollars out there and also a constant inflation that's due to supply and demand. However, the dollar has kept it's value within the society for decades and that's because the major bankers have refused to flood the economy with their money and thus creating a huge bubble over the dollar's true value which is about to burst atm., but that's beside the point here. The point is the number of dollars circulating around the world is in constant increase; however, the number of coupons - which is the main currency in ForsakenRO - IS NOT. The reason is mainly due to the fact that in the real world dollar is traded and never lost/destroyed/etc. but in our economy the coupons are completely diminished once a purchase is made via a f.king NPC. For example, If the total numbr of coupons circulating around the server was exactly

100,000 and I was in possession of one hundred donation coupons, and I'd decide to buy a Mix B belt from the NPC. By the time the transaction is done the number of coupons circulating around the server would reduce to 99,900. That's what seperates our ingame economy from the real world's economy and that's why your example and Sard's suggstion falls short from being even remotely tangible as a plausible responce to the server's current nonexistent "economic crisis." It's nonexistent because the major guild's leaders who are holding the castles are in possession of the castle drops and are maintaining a monopoly over them. Meaning they've turned into huge cash cows - not so different from the major bankrs - and are already achieving your goal without your knowledge at a far more rapid pace than what Sard had suggested. Implementing more coupon eating NPCs would result in an all time low market value for coupons in terms of zeny. You'd see donation coupons being sold for 10 million zeny and thus, it'd result in more zeny bots circulating around the server, more problems for you to solve, etc..

It wouldn't raise the cost of items...

What he is saying is raises the value of the coupon. Meaning:

1 qpon = 25 mil zenny right now

raises in value ....

1 qpon = 50 mil zenny

No comment. :laugh:

Few months ago, 1 donation coupon was worthy of 100M zeny so now 30M per coupon doesn't look so good. coupons should have more value than that!

I explained the reasoning behind that rapid change. However, there's anoher major issue that I do not wish to raise here which helped with the zeny's added value.

[Avalon]

I'm not sure this is correct, but coupons are OK. There is no such thing as a great inflation here, because there is something backing the value of coupons: real life money. The U.S. is probably making dollars with no value behind it. An example of this happening ingame would be GMs giving random people free coupons. This doesn't happen because you have to earn the coupons or buy them. There is also the fact that inflation would not be a completely bad thing, because NPCs (there are NPCs to use coupons for, right?) aren't out the make a profit, but to be a convenience to players. Their prices for items do not rise with the amount of coupons in circulation. Think about it like this. Everyone gets more money and prices stay the same; if it were like that, then inflation would not be a bad thing.

By the way, who the hell is stupid enough to donate for more coupons than they need?

EDIT: Oh, and an inflation of coupons would not be a bad thing for donators, either. They use the same NPCs, so they still would donate the same amount of money.

[FAQU]

silly berserk. just shhh for a bit.

we want (or at least i do) need more coupon eaters because then the price of coupons will go up and we can make monies. cuz coupn is only 20mill right now. i got 8B so i can buy lots of them then we can sell them all for like 80m agian =)

HEY also

"100,000 and I was in possession of one hundred donation coupons, and I'd decide to buy a Mix B belt from the NPC. By the time the transaction is done the number of coupons circulating around the server would reduce to 99,900."

there is alot of people donateing everyday so +1000 coupons like every person. So there is probally lots of coupons flying around. and every event more event are let out and made into more donation 1to1. so dude. now there is like 999999coupons out there so the price is soo low only 20m a coupon. we need less coupons out there so the ones we got are worth alot. =)

i hope you understands me.

[CombatMuffins]

But in actuality, this wouldn't raise prices would it? If anything wouldn't it just sort of keep it at the same position its in right now? not raise nor lower?

[Ryoji]

It would lower prices, technically.

The only thing it would raise is the zeny to donation ratio.

And, no. I highly doubt there is 1000+ qpons per person,

let alone almost every day.

The amount increases and decreases.

Donations are increased with events, GvG, and donations.

All three which are constant.

So yes, donations are constantly coming in.

Yet, however NPCs also collect donations for selling stuff.

So it is also ever decreasing.

Some people getting impatient and buying from an NPC instead of searching.

However, also...

As more items flood the market, prices drop. Drastically.

Yet, thats also not true. Many players hold onto their items.

Thus why some things are still expensive or easier to get from the NPC.

And no, not all the major qpon owners are donators.

Why? Because they win a shit load of GvG or sold things like pvp/WoE prizes. Etc.

Or other various reasons. Hax. Lol.

Getting them to spend their coupons will benefit no one but themselves.

Which is why it'd be considered a luxery, however if at best nothing changes.

Yet, at worst prices drop. The poor get poorer, and the rich maintain.

Nothing good can come of this, is all I'm saying.

Nothing is gained to the economy, nor is it stabalizing anything.

This is merely another way of saying "We want special items, since we can afford them"

Or as some put it. "We're better then you, so we deserve better stuff. To make us even better."

Lol.

----------------------------------

This will make ppl go postal!

BUY ON MARGIN STOCKS!

Crash the economy.

Make Genesis file for brankruptcy.

Pls, let's do it! =D

Not rly.

[sarcasm] *hint, hint, hint*

[Berserk.]

silly berserk. just shhh for a bit.

i hope you understands me.

Silly rabbit tricks are for kids. Despite the fact that I don't understand you I still love you, your thoughta. :thumbsup_anim:

[Sorrow]

As a zenny farmer, i don't know if i want d coupons rising in zenny value =/ even so this idea has so much potential i just can't disagree with it XD

You know what kind of product i'm pretty sure would be a success and wouldn't cause any harm balance-wise?

Effect potions :3 Potions to make things such as...shrink/enlarge characters, monster disguises, this kind of thing. People wouldn't want them cause it's an edge in pvp and the such, they would want it cause it's fun XD the disguise idea Emy had sounded nice to me.

[Hrist]

Lets not forget semi-veteran players, or those who have acquired a certain amount of power, but technically not yet in par with veteran players. Those are the ones who played this server for at least 3 months or so. They are alright on their own, but they do not have enough funds to acquire the rarest of items like Ladder Wings or WOE drops. They are the ones who needed help the most. With a few extra coupons in their pockets, to what item would they spend it on? My answer? Rental Items.

What are rental items to be exact? It is something that would augment their current lack of power so that they'll be in par with the donors and veterans, but only for a limited amount of time. In my opinion, items like these would not affect the economy drastically, but it would give value for donation coupons. Event coupons are already expensive as it is, but donation coupons on the other hand, is quickly losing its value. Rental items however, would put that value back into action. People would have an increased need of coupons, and that would be their motivation to farm more yggs to sel, et cetera, et cetera. It also gives an alternative to those who cannot afford items yet, let alone to donate.

So how does this work? It only works on items that would not be dangerous to sell in the donation room. Something like a Non-slotted headgear that gives +25 to all stats, lasts 3 days and costs 5 donation coupons. The 7 day version would cost around 10 coupons or so.

3 days = 5 c's

7 days = 10 c's

You saved 1 coupon, which is not bad at all.

Other rental items could be accessories that gave +15-20 to all stats. It could be useful to both veteran and new players alike, without the fear of having another "overpowered coupon item". Another variation to this would be the +25 stat accessory, something like "Refined Strength Belt, non-slotted rental item available for 10 days and costs 10 coupons as well." All transfer methods are locked except for storage (not gstorage). Once the item is used (consumable, then equip), the timer will start its count even after you log off. Extra stat boosts would greatly help the newbies to be able to farm items or hunt MVPs.

Others:

Drop-rate booster(?)

I already agree to one part of the "spending your extra coupons for items", but since the major e-livelihood of some people would be at stake here, I wanted to remain safe.

If lets say, the Admins decide to implement luxury consumables (or items that could still be obtained the old fashioned way), I don't think it would have that great of an effect to the current standard prices. In fact, I find it to be somewhat convenient since people are sometimes too lazy to bargain for prices and such.

Example:

200 Pcs of Lightning Converters

(Lightning Converter Box)

- costs xx amount of coupons in the luxury shop

It would probably cost more than the average Lightning converter that is sold by piece, but if you can afford it, why not? The point is, the people who sell their manufactured lightning converters would have no downside with this. Why? They could even increase their prices a bit since the already set amount of 200 converters via the NPC is set in xx amount. If you look at it carefully, the prices of a few hundred converters is still very low, around 20 coupons per 200 pieces? So lets say the NPC sells 200 for 30 coupons, then the merchants could increase their prices (of self-manufactured converters) by selling it for 25. Or they could still sell it for 20, but thats a guaranteed 20 coupons. No bargains, or fears of having to sell them for 15:200 ratio.

Same with speed potions and stat-increasing foods. If ever some of what I said has been already mentioned, then forgive me.

PS: Sex change items please?

[Sorrow]

Rental Items.

i had mentioned that previously, but thank you so much for explaining the system and advantages of it :3

[Avalon]

The NPC being implemented could affect the prices of converters. The demand for the converters would decrease and there would be a lot less people buying them from players, since they have oh-so-many coupons, thus letting them spend just a few extra for coupons at that moment. Some sellers may be determined and keep their price close to the NPCs, but there are always people out there who will sell it for a lot less because they don't want to do all the spamming. Then the price for the converters would be relative to that of the lowest price, making it so the normal price would be considered too high. People could also not increase their prices because of the fact that the prices are always relative to the lowest. That means the price of 20 coupons would not increase, and only could go lower.

Well, we can never be sure if this will happen, but I don't think the risk is worth it. This would help a very small minority in forms of slight convenience in saving maybe a few minutes at the cost of a great majority having a real big pain in the ass.

[Daniel Rose]

PS: Sex change items please?

how would that help the economy. That should go in an individual suggestion thing if ur serious

[sarduarkar]

It would help the economy because Hrist would purchase it.... all the time. *jokes*

Part 1:

Supply and Demand

- There is a good supply of MVP cards, Tickets, etc. sold from players

- There is a good market for MVP cards, Tickets, etc bought by players

This equals good economic pricing on those items (balance between the two parties, trying to make/save money; stable pricing) - competition compels the prices lower, greed compels the prices higher = equilibrium at a reasonable price

Part 2:

Money in the Economy

- People are earning coupons faster than they are spending coupons as a population in general (more coupons out of thin air via events/gvg/donators versus outlets via NPCs and/or dispersion to new players)

*** This equals more people with a greater number of coupons in their pockets

Fact: more people are able and willing to pay in the thousands of coupons for an item in high demand than before

When something in low supply is being sold, MORE people now have deeper pockets to drive the prices of those items up (thana used to be sold for 1k; now is being sold for 3k+). [This does not effect items in plenty of supply because competitors keep the prices in check. Why pay 50 for a kiel when you know there is someone who can sell it to you for 35 (even though you have more coupons than before to purchase it)]

Part 3:

The goal of my whole suggestion

- Trying to keep the value of the coupon from dropping too low.

The value of donating decreases with the decline of the coupon value. 100$ for 1400 coupons now isnt worth as much as 1400 coupons back then. At the moment, it's not bad. But if the trend gets much more significant, 1400 may not be worth much in the future. If people begin bidding 5k on stuff - 500$ for a thana or woe item plox (in essence)?

It's not trying to get people to donate any more than before, but rather trying to keep the value of the donation coupon consistent / in check.

[Ethereal]

Sex change would be kind of weird... but I guess people still want it. The only problem that I have with it is clowns & gypsies. Unless the item somehow changed the clown classes to gypsies, and vice-versa, then maybe it would be alright.

[Daniel Rose]

lol why not PM the GMs for sex chage

make sex changer GMs-_-

[Sorrow]

In a server i previously was, there was a sex changer NPC, it was a troublesome quest to do and you could them change it XD though since i never did that...i don't know if they managed to make things such as...having a female character and a male character in the same account oO, don't know if this is possible to make

Anyways i REALLY don't want things such as 100 Mill coupons to happen again, it can look pretty good for those with lots of coupons, but for those who actually need them, it is terrible. Don't forget about those who want to obtain them, many opinions here are sided more with those who already have lots.

[Avalon]

Part 2:

Money in the Economy

- People are earning coupons faster than they are spending coupons as a population in general (more coupons out of thin air via events/gvg/donators versus outlets via NPCs and/or dispersion to new players)

*** This equals more people with a greater number of coupons in their pockets

Fact: more people are able and willing to pay in the thousands of coupons for an item in high demand than before

When something in low supply is being sold, MORE people now have deeper pockets to drive the prices of those items up (thana used to be sold for 1k; now is being sold for 3k+). [This does not effect items in plenty of supply because competitors keep the prices in check. Why pay 50 for a kiel when you know there is someone who can sell it to you for 35 (even though you have more coupons than before to purchase it)]

There is not a shortage of demand on a coupon, but a shortage of those willing to spend it. If people tend to not buy from other players, who says that they will buy from an overpriced NPC? There are hundreds of players out there who need the coupons for equipment, so I don't think the demand will ever lower anytime soon, or at all. We shouldn't just throw away the extra coupons for the items from NPCs, because of that demand.

Also, there will always be those few people who don't buy things if the NPC is implemented, like how some people don't buy from other players. Those players, who save their coupons, will keep the price for rare items like Thanatos up, because the prices for most items depend on the highest value. Even if that wasn't a problem, something else could happen, even if the price decreased. The ratio between how many coupons you have and how many coupons a rare item, a Thanatos card for example, will cost will stay the same. Here's an example: say that right now the Thanatos card costs 3,000 coupons, and you only have 1,000. That makes it a 1:3 ratio. If the number of coupons decreases because of the NPC, then EVERYONES (including your) coupons would decrease as well. Then, even if the Thanatos card dropped to 1,000 coupons, you would probably have 300 coupons. In this way, it doesn't really matter. The people who have the most will always get it.

Part 3:

The goal of my whole suggestion

- Trying to keep the value of the coupon from dropping too low.

The value of donating decreases with the decline of the coupon value. 100$ for 1400 coupons now isnt worth as much as 1400 coupons back then. At the moment, it's not bad. But if the trend gets much more significant, 1400 may not be worth much in the future. If people begin bidding 5k on stuff - 500$ for a thana or woe item plox (in essence)?

It's not trying to get people to donate any more than before, but rather trying to keep the value of the donation coupon consistent / in check.

It is not that the value of the coupon is decreasing, for it is always backed by real money; the value of harder to get items are just increasing. There should always be a set price on easier to obtain items, because of the money backing. The fact that only the buyers, not the sellers of these items, are directly affected by the great amount of coupons. The way many may think it will affect the sellers will be that the seller could just go to a buyer with a great surplus of coupons, and sell common items to them for an overpriced price, because the buyers shouldn't really care to waste a few coupons. Well, think about it. How did those many-coupon-holding few get that many coupons anyway? They saved it up or didn't spend it, so then the people with the surplus would not use their coupons anyway. It's just that the population decides when the coupon's value fluctuates. The use of the set price should continue unless someone goes, "Hey, I think I'll buy one ygg ticket for two coupons consistently." According to what you said, this shouldn't happen because of greed, so the donators would try to get every last value out of their coupons. Because the value is not affected by people who buy coupons (which would force the value of coupons to decrease), but is affected by how the donators use it (who wouldn't fluctuate prices), the value should stay at equilibrium.

The harder to get items probably will also stay the same in terms of price. The average price of coupons does not affect the price of hard to get items, but the highest amount of coupons someone has does. The fact that people are willing to pay $500 for a Thanatos card in the first place means that it will probably be sold for that high, especially because rare items would be sold auction-style.

[Daniel Rose]

Well a perfect economy is impossible unfortunatly so the econmy can never be "fixed" and Avalon you always type such long posts your making my 3 sentence posts Q.Q lol

[Zeitgeist]

Well, fortunately for us, the economy is not on a bad shape as of now. We'll be keeping this suggestion as a backup in case it does.

-Accepted-