Legacy Mvp Cards

[DarthKalas]

Hello, I would like to suggest the implementation of a Legacy MVP Card System. This system would add a new table of card ID's to drop from the current MVP's alongside the cards they already drop now. These cards will be much harder to get then the normal MVP cards now with having only 1/2 to 1/4th the normal normal MVP's card drop rate. Legacy Cards come in 3 versions (4 including the normal MVP Card) for Example:

Assassin Cross Card - Enable the use of level 3 Cloaking

Assassin Cross Card Alpha - Enable the use of level 5 Cloaking

Assassin Cross Card Beta - Enable the use of level 10 Cloaking

Assassin Cross Card Prime - 1% chance to Auto-Cast "Enchant Deadly Poison" when attacking. [ Cannot stack with other versions of assassin cross card]

Each MVP would receive a Legacy Card (Legacy Cards for all mobs would take too long to code) and I don't think Genesis would like it very much haha) but please take it into consideration. I do not believe any other servers have something of this matter. Also you can make a Legacy MVP Trader NPC that takes XXX ammount of cards to give you a Legacy Upgrade. For Example:

Legacy NPC Trader will give you the next Tier Legacy Card.

10 Assassin Cross Cards = 1 Assassin Cross Alpha Card

5 Assassin Cross Alpha Cards = 1 Assassin Cross Beta Card

3 Assassin Cross Beta Cards = 1 Assassin Cross Prime Card

When a player receieves a Prime Legacy Card, There will be a Global Announcement :)

Edited March 22, 2013 by DarthKalas

[-Si-]

Sounds like a cool thing but it could see it as too OP maybe, and "Enchant Deadly Poison" should only stay with the Assassin Cross class, could probably set it only to work for Assassin class. But other then that, cool suggestions.

[DarthKalas]

Sounds like a cool thing but it could see it as too OP maybe, and "Enchant Deadly Poison" should only stay with the Assassin Cross class, could probably set it only to work for Assassin class. But other then that, cool suggestions.

That was an example not an Idea haha, but yea it would add a bit more flavor to PVPing so far all I am seeing is +7% defense against Demi and +15% resist to all Damage and whatnot. As for Enchant Deadly Poison being OP, I dont think so. Stalkers have the ability to copy many skills and some of which I have seen to be extremely powerful. OP is having 3 Kiel Cards on and reaching almost 0 after cast delay spamming OP skills like Arrow Vulcan with 100% Donation Gear with Thanatos cards. Im seeing people die in literally 2 shots and if you are a champion heaven forbid you asura strike a full Vit Based Paladin you either GR Tank the hit or hope to god your Auto Guard stops it because it's lights out. Any other class it's just death. A LOT of things in this game are OP. not even basic card knowledge can help you obtain victory here. If you do not have Legendary/Elite/Donation weapons you are just a punching bag. If you are not strong enough to do W.o.E and win, you are just a punching bag.

[Shino]

I am gonna say that you haven't played in this server as long as you should have been.

1. No class right now can achieve 0 after cast delay. All skills have their delays buffed up, arrow vulcan cannot be spammed more than 3x at a fast rate. You sacrifice a lot by using 3 kiels.

2. Legendary Items are ,honestly, too easy to get nowadays. We even had a vote forsaken king set. There is absolutely no reason for you not to get decently geared in a matter of days. So I doubt there are people that do not have at least legendary + Knight set. With that said, I don't see anyone being a punching bag.

3. Any Physical hitting class that gets EDP will be OP. A sniper hits 40k FAS without thanatos, add EDP to that formula and we got OP. Champs hit 90k+ each asura against people that has dual raydrics + gr, adding EDP to that seems absurd. Oh, and no decent champ would actually suicide against a paladin. Would have used TSS then.

On the Legacy MVPs. I do not see this,in any way, helping new guys. It would just make the strong and rich become stronger. New guys would not be able to camp LHZ MVPs as there are many Veterans camping the place because of a particular quest item.

It's a nice suggestion, do not get me wrong, but it would need tons of toning down if we would implement this, and I do not agree on most of it. I would have preferred creating new custom MVPs so that everyone has an even playing ground. Because if we implement this exactly as you had said it, I would have made 1 SinX Alpha card right off the bat on my legit, and I am not even that rich compared to others.

Edited March 23, 2013 by Shino

[El7]

This would be OP if they implement this...

[xCid]

I am gonna say that you haven't played in this server as long as you should have been.

1. No class right now can achieve 0 after cast delay. All skills have their delays buffed up, arrow vulcan cannot be spammed more than 3x at a fast rate. You sacrifice a lot by using 3 kiels.

2. Legendary Items are ,honestly, too easy to get nowadays. We even had a vote forsaken king set. There is absolutely no reason for you not to get decently geared in a matter of days. So I doubt there are people that do not have at least legendary + Knight set. With that said, I don't see anyone being a punching bag.

3. Any Physical hitting class that gets EDP will be OP. A sniper hits 40k FAS without thanatos, add EDP to that formula and we got OP. Champs hit 90k+ each asura against people that has dual raydrics + gr, adding EDP to that seems absurd. Oh, and no decent champ would actually suicide against a paladin. Would have used TSS then.

On the Legacy MVPs. I do not see this,in any way, helping new guys. It would just make the strong and rich become stronger. New guys would not be able to camp LHZ MVPs as there are many Veterans camping the place because of a particular quest item.

It's a nice suggestion, do not get me wrong, but it would need tons of toning down if we would implement this, and I do not agree on most of it. I would have preferred creating new custom MVPs so that everyone has an even playing ground. Because if we implement this exactly as you had said it, I would have made 1 SinX Alpha card right off the bat on my legit, and I am not even that rich compared to others.

I totally agree with him.

[DarthKalas]

That was an example not an Idea haha, but yea it would add a bit more flavor to PVPing.

Completely overlooked this guys, anyways that is besides the point. Having that said I was just suggesting expanding the effects of already existing MVP cards (Not saying Add EDP to the cards already existing effect, but further increasing the cards usability. As far as the "punching bag" statement goes. I only said that after being FAS by a stalker and dying instantly with my full + 10 Forsaken Knight Gear (Guess it's not that good eh?) I felt like a punching bag.

[Shino]

dying instantly on your full +10 Forsaken Knight gear means two things.

1. You are waring Ghostring armor and the stalker is using Immaterial arrows.

2. The stalker is using thanatos card. If you asked around, no one upgrades their items to +10 except for weapon because thanatos would hurt you more and everyone has incantation samurai card anyway, so the extra defense wouldn't really help, but would make you more vulnerable.

[Monkey D. Luffy]

dying instantly on your full +10 Forsaken Knight gear means two things.

1. You are waring Ghostring armor and the stalker is using Immaterial arrows.

2. The stalker is using thanatos card. If you asked around, no one upgrades their items to +10 except for weapon because thanatos would hurt you more and everyone has incantation samurai card anyway, so the extra defense wouldn't really help, but would make you more vulnerable.

^ What he said. EDP is too OP when used by other jobs.

[Veracity]

Forsaken knight gear is very good and only a few stats less than the donation counterparts (which is also available through voting), so you can't really use that as an excuse for dying. If you have the knight and legendary gear, the right cards and strategy, you can absolutely be competitive in PvP and kill donors - many people have said the same in other topics. I'd definitely ask around for suggestions on strategy and take the time to learn how PvP and such works here, it will be well worth it. :) And try not to jump to conclusions when you haven't been here long enough or have enough experience under your belt to know how PvP really works.

As for your suggestion: I like the idea a lot and think the concept is interesting, however, I'm worried that adding these new legacy cards would result in veterans camping the MvPs and making it even harder for newbies to get MvP drops/cards. This is already a bit of a problem here now, and this would make it a lot worse. :/

Based on that, I think perhaps the more viable option may be having an NPC that exchanges x amount of a card for an upgraded legacy version of the card. Though that would probably have similar ramifications, too... does anyone have any suggestions on how we could address this? I do want to make MvPing more of a thing here, but at the same time, I don't want to hurt newbies either.

[zergling]

could always just design a quest that allows players to choose an MVP they want to summon for the cost of x number of cards and x number of materials. almost like what we had with the elite quest (along those numbers to make sure the veterans aren't camping them and getting massive numbers of cards) that way it can help the newbies get some MVP cards and if the veterans are willing to work for it they can also get the mvp cards. best of both worlds.

[DarthKalas]

Alright, Back on topic. I do not know why people keep referring to my example as my idea. Read carefully people please.

@Topic

The Idea is to create a custom Legacy Card table that drops at a much lower rate than the normal MVP card drops (Not to be affected by Floating Rates)

These cards are to present abilities that work similarly to their already existing Normal drops but with added stats/skills/effects. The effects of the cards are totally up to the GMs

I just presented Examples of how it works.

Forsaken Arcana Fusion NPC:

This NPC has the ability to fuse cards together to create a legacy MVP card.

By presenting 5 Normal MVP cards you will receive 1 Legacy MVP card of the next tier.

For Example

After completing the knights quest, you are able to take up the quest from the Arcana Fusion NPC

The NPC sends you on a seriese of quests ( I want to say collect 1 card from every Mini-Boss along with some other items)

after completion She offers her services to you)

you are presented with the names of MVPs and you select the one you would like to use fusion with

She than asks you what card type would you like, Alpha, Beta or Prime.

To obtain Alpha cards, you must have 5 normal MVP cards of that name

To obtain Beta cards, you must have 5 Alpha MVP cards of that name

To obtain Prime cards you must have 5 Beta Mvp cards of that name and 1 Hero's Remains

this will further make use of the MVP rooms and make use of other MVPs.

Edited March 25, 2013 by DarthKalas

[zergling]

i don't agree with it to be honest. it will make the rich richer and the poor will stay poor. it will drive the price for mvp cards down and the first alpha/beta/prime cards will be worth so much it's retarted to even fathom.

[DarthKalas]

I do not see how that would happen, It is already easy enough to farm for zenny, and with that Zenny you can occupy an MVP room and summon your own MVPs and work for what you want.

Lets say what you say is true and normal MVP cards Go down. would you not be able to buy more of a cheaper MVP card and make your own fusions? You are basing your sol idea around an already inflated market full of lazy people who don't go out and do their own work. I managed to make 4 legendary gauntlets in 2 days by farming my own items. Granted the last materials I needed I had to shell out 40m on two pieces of Muskovite but managed to catch one Tyrfing spawn in gl_cas02 and one in geffenia. I have been here for a few weeks now, and I love it here. granted I did a bit of miscalculating which inevitably caused my demise at the hands of countless people but I do my own work, I'm guildless, friendless, and pretty much broke with 6 tokens to my name which someone gave me out of the kindness of their hearts. I managed to make not 1 not 2 but 3 sets of Forsaken Knight armor, got my Legendary Katar (which needs a buff btw) and currently 2.5k Hydra cards into getting my elite Assassin Cross Armor. I pay no mind to the market to obtain what I want. If I see it, and want it than I will get it some way.

As for your suggestion: I like the idea a lot and think the concept is interesting, however, I'm worried that adding these new legacy cards would result in veterans camping the MvPs and making it even harder for newbies to get MvP drops/cards. This is already a bit of a problem here now, and this would make it a lot worse. :/

Based on that, I think perhaps the more viable option may be having an NPC that exchanges x amount of a card for an upgraded legacy version of the card. Though that would probably have similar ramifications, too... does anyone have any suggestions on how we could address this? I do want to make MvPing more of a thing here, but at the same time, I don't want to hurt newbies either.

Well, you do have MVP rooms but these MVP rooms are a bit premature to be honest, you have a waiting period, 100m zenny to spawn 1 MVP, then a 30min cooldown. I would suggest amping up your MVP room to something more like an MVP castle where there are (x) amount of MVPs are on each floor and as you go up to different floors the MVP verity changes.

Edited March 25, 2013 by DarthKalas

[zergling]

just for the record, the elite quests don't exist anymore, you can't get the elite armors/weapons anymore. with the inflated market as it is now, having more cards that are more expensive is going to cause the economy to crash. the people that are buying MVP cards now will sell for cheaper at first(or make the upgraded cards themselves and sell them for a shit ton) then it will suddenly skyrocket and nobody will be able to buy anything.

[DarthKalas]

just for the record, the elite quests don't exist anymore, you can't get the elite armors/weapons anymore. with the inflated market as it is now, having more cards that are more expensive is going to cause the economy to crash. the people that are buying MVP cards now will sell for cheaper at first(or make the upgraded cards themselves and sell them for a shit ton) then it will suddenly skyrocket and nobody will be able to buy anything.

If people actually worked for things the same way others did the economy wouldn't go up. You are depending on the market way too much for your statement to be viable. People Drive the Economy not the other way around. Supply and Demand fits in if Rich players keep buying from other rich players. but when all those rich players are done buying from one another the demand for the item declines and prices will drop. If you stopped being lazy and get up and put forth the effort to supply yourself, you would not be demanding items from another person for money that could be well spent elsewhere. Stop using the player based market as your leverage in this argument, considering the fact that one can simply donate money to the server and choose their card is also an option for many.

As for the elite quest being removed, please remove all data from the Wiki/Quest Guide. I just wasted 3 days farming hydra cards and now I have to plan out another route to get geared up enough to start PVPing.

[zergling]

first off i have done the elite quest(before it was removed) on champ, prof, LK, sinx, and paladin. i farmed the cards myself. so please do not preach about farming i have done it already. secondly if every 5 cards is an upgraded card and you have people that have 10 of the basic card they will either:

A: sell the card for overpriced in hopes that people will buy it to try to make the upgraded card

or

B: make the upgraded card and overprice it to hell making the strong stronger and the people at the bottom are once again stuck with nothing.

the problem with your logic is that it's not going to be the poor that will get these cards, the geared players deal more damage and have been around longer so they already have the gear and cards like kiels, which on a champ means they can spam asura making them faster mvpers than a new champ with no kiels at all. this means the new champ is stuck with nothing, and the geared champ wins the new cards. thus leading to overpricing and then people will be Q_Qing about it like always happens. now then there are people who pay others to farm items for a reason it helps promote the people who can't farm mvp cards to farm items for others so they can buy gear/cards to help allow them to mvp better. this helps the economy. your comment with the donations, not everyone who plays donates money to get items. even if everyone did then the cards would simply make people stronger making them deal more damage and causing more problems with pvp/mvp's. now then i do not believe that these cards would help the server in any way, if any new cards are to be added it would be better to simply add custom mvp's and do it that way not add more drops that will end up killing the economy.

by the way we do have lhz_dun04 why not make 7 custom mvp's for that with custom card effects?

[DarthKalas]

Alright that is where the mistake is made. Add new custom MVPs? Give veterans another mob to camp? Sure thing. it will make the situation much like it is now with the silver MVPs:

Silver Tao Gunka Card: HP+ 25%

Tao Gunka Card: HP+ 100%

Tao Gunka Card Prime: HP+150% <---EXAMPLE

Let's imagine Tao Gunka Prime Card existed in an imaginary ForsakenRO. Upon release of Tao Gunka Prime MVP custom mob that only spawns in LHZ4 dungeon. Just like Tao Gunka in Beach Dungeon, it is now HEAVILY camped. New players cannot even survive in LHZ4 let alone put up with a decked out champ that just rapes face with his Thanatos Fist. That Champ is down there waiting for some poor unsuspecting soul to try and come take his MVP. So what is the new situation? New MVPs are heavily camped and so ar the older ones this changes nothing, in fact it makes it worse. No way to spawn the new MVPs in the MVP rooms. and even if you could these new MVPs would have to be super buffed due to the fact that their cards are godlike in ability so there would be no way for the newcomers to even remotely think about taking them down. So now what do you do? attempt to further hunt the already camped mobs? Go to the MVP room and try to gear up that way? Either way the newcomers have no way of obtaining these cards. Thus they have no way of combating veterans. Thus is why I suggested they drop from normal MVPs and not custom MVPs because newcomers can farm the MVP rooms.

Why are you worried about how much a card is going to sell for on the market? If Players utilize the MVP room that the GM's have given us there would be no need to worry about buying a card. If anything the presence of the MVP room should help ease the MVP cards strain on the player market. It was just added recently give it time.

[zergling]

the mvp room won't change the price for the cards, the reason for this is it costs 100m just to summon an mvp with a 1.4% chance to get the card(with double rates). tokens sell for 25-30m per token. according to that math anyone who's farming the zeny has a better shot at simply buying the tokens with the zeny and then buying the cards with the tokens. i understand that the new mvp suggestion might not pan out but what it will do is reduce the price of the other mvp cards that are not as good allowing for newer players to get these cards so they have a better survival rate than before.

also tao gunka only gives 30% more HP and silver tao is 15%.

[DarthKalas]

the mvp room won't change the price for the cards, the reason for this is it costs 100m just to summon an mvp with a 1.4% chance to get the card(with double rates). tokens sell for 25-30m per token. according to that math anyone who's farming the zeny has a better shot at simply buying the tokens with the zeny and then buying the cards with the tokens. i understand that the new mvp suggestion might not pan out but what it will do is reduce the price of the other mvp cards that are not as good allowing for newer players to get these cards so they have a better survival rate than before.

also tao gunka only gives 30% more HP and silver tao is 15%.

I farm about 20-30m every 20min with my assassin cross double that amount with my creator. Making zenny on this server is very easy if you have the will to do so. Yes I had stated the hastle before hand but it's not bad once you know how to farm it. You can either:

A) Wait the 2 hours for the MVP to naturally spawn and pray to god it is not being camped

or

B) Take those 2 hours and make about 300m to summon 3 MVPs in the MVP room and be undisturbed.

I didn't know Tao Card had been nurfed here.

[zergling]

3 mvp's that drop their card at below 1% on week days and barely over 1% on weekends. as i have stated before with 300 million zeny you can buy tokens and then buy the cards with that. the mvp rooms don't drop cards very often due to the low drop rates making it less viable than just farming the zeny for the tokens and buying the cards with the tokens.

[DarthKalas]

Legacy MVP cards are not affected by floating rates, I stated this in my Forsaken Tower thread.

[zergling]

even if legacy cards aren't affected by the foating rates the normal mvp cards are. your reasoning for the mvp room to drop card prices will not ever happen. 350 million zeny gets you 3 mvp's where it can get you 10 tokens instead. the mvp cards drop rates are too low in the mvp room for it to be a remote possibility to be on even keel with the normal mvp card drop rates. mvp's are being camped regardless even if you add the legacy cards the people camping the mvp's will have the legacy cards and the poor will not get them at all. making the rich richer and the poor with nothing. so your suggestion for legacy cards is a good one but not one that FRO can afford right now.

[Procastinate]

-1 OverPowering

[DarthKalas]

even if legacy cards aren't affected by the foating rates the normal mvp cards are. your reasoning for the mvp room to drop card prices will not ever happen. 350 million zeny gets you 3 mvp's where it can get you 10 tokens instead. the mvp cards drop rates are too low in the mvp room for it to be a remote possibility to be on even keel with the normal mvp card drop rates. mvp's are being camped regardless even if you add the legacy cards the people camping the mvp's will have the legacy cards and the poor will not get them at all. making the rich richer and the poor with nothing. so your suggestion for legacy cards is a good one but not one that FRO can afford right now.

Legacy Card system is meant to coexist with the implementation of Forsaken Tower. Further more Legacy

Card drop rates are 0.01%. How can you call something overpowering and yet you have no Idea what the effects are? Can you explain your reasoning? Do you have E.S.P? Can you tell what efects are going to be on the card before the GMs come up with an idea? please tell me, I wish to hear about your ability to see the future. I am still thinking you are looking at the examples as a final result. If you are please stop those are EXAMPLES.

Side note: I am starting to think you camp MVPs