Levis Posted July 5, 2012 Report Posted July 5, 2012 That's what we wanted, nobody asked anything else of you, Thanks.
zergling Posted July 6, 2012 Report Posted July 6, 2012 well it is a discussion on whether or not the class should get a boost and to be honest the class is perfectly fine as it is. the weight limit is fine since all other classes do have to get some str to allow them to hold yggs and supplies. anyway the GS class should not have the increase weight limit. -1 from me
Halion Posted July 10, 2012 Report Posted July 10, 2012 They should have the increase weight limit like stalker or sniper sb, i mean why not? remember that gunslingers main skills are desperado and rapid shower and they consume a shitton of seeds, spamming those skills 2 or 3 times burns ur sp down to 0. Seems fair that gunslingers got a one handed pistol but they still don't have the sustain that other jobs got with the valkyrie weapons. +1
zergling Posted July 11, 2012 Report Posted July 11, 2012 a GS can achieve far greater damage output compared to a stalker or sniper that's the idea of a glass cannon. giving the class the ability to hold a fuck ton of seeds will completely imbalance the classes even more than they are now.
Levis Posted July 11, 2012 Report Posted July 11, 2012 Did you know that Tao Gunka increase 50% HP for Stalker & Sniper, while it doesnt for Gunslingers? Did you know that the Valks of Sniper and Stalker have EWL lvl 10? And did you know that they made Stalker & Sniper weapons one handed? Same factors as Sniper & Stalker, only they dont get a HP Boost nor EWL lvl 10. It's more like, our server decided to make Snipers & Stalkers more tanky and GS more glass canon's, else they'd be pretty much the same without all the boosts for Snipers and Stalkers. 2
Meka Meka Posted July 11, 2012 Author Report Posted July 11, 2012 Enlarge Weight Limit 10 will allow a Gunslinger to carry 130 additional seeds. (EWL10 gives +2000 weight) Since they don't get the same Tao Gunka bonus like other classes, they're still just as vulnerable to burst damage as they would normally be. I think this change isn't asking for a lot. If implemented, it would only serve to give GS a slightly better chance in events that aren't just WoE (ie PvP, GvG, BR, LMS, LTS). ~200 seeds and low HP essentially relegates the gunslinger to a tool instead of a competitive class to main. Even with the additional seeds, I don't think gunslingers are going to be able to suddenly dominate, only be a little more useful.
zergling Posted July 11, 2012 Report Posted July 11, 2012 GS can compete with a sniper and stalker perfectly fine without the increase weight limit. i have seen it countless times the class is perfectly fine as they are they can do massive damage with desperado and still manage to pull heavy damage with their rapid shower, so in the right hands a GS can compete with a sniper completely. snipers rely on their sharp shooting and their double strafe, the same way a GS relies on desperado and rapid shower the classes are fine as they are. i wouldn't look so much at boosting the classes as i would look at removing some of the effects in others.
Levis Posted July 11, 2012 Report Posted July 11, 2012 GS can compete with a sniper and stalker perfectly fine without the increase weight limit. i have seen it countless times the class is perfectly fine as they are they can do massive damage with desperado and still manage to pull heavy damage with their rapid shower, so in the right hands a GS can compete with a sniper completely. snipers rely on their sharp shooting and their double strafe, the same way a GS relies on desperado and rapid shower the classes are fine as they are. i wouldn't look so much at boosting the classes as i would look at removing some of the effects in others. Let me remind you, we are not speaking about Skills or Damage, nor about HP for now. We are trying to emphasize on the low supplies they can carry. In a long combat with a Sniper where it comes about shooting, a GS cannot sustain for long, because they are not able to carry as much supplies as a Sniper. It's about to battle someone with 200 Seeds whilst the other person can carry 300 Seeds, although both shared the same attitudes before the Valkyrie and Elite Weapons. 1
Meka Meka Posted July 11, 2012 Author Report Posted July 11, 2012 GS can compete with a sniper and stalker perfectly fine without the increase weight limit. i have seen it countless times the class is perfectly fine as they are they can do massive damage with desperado and still manage to pull heavy damage with their rapid shower, so in the right hands a GS can compete with a sniper completely. snipers rely on their sharp shooting and their double strafe, the same way a GS relies on desperado and rapid shower the classes are fine as they are. i wouldn't look so much at boosting the classes as i would look at removing some of the effects in others. GS's DPS isn't that incomparable to Sniper. A sniper that knows what they're doing can easily keep a GS at bay long enough to deplete the GS's seeds. Arrow shower, FAS rinse and repeat. In a ranged slugfest, the GS is going to use up their own seeds before the sniper does. There best hope in that situation is try to sneak up and use Desperado, and the sniper still has higher HP to tank with and more seeds.
Lightofheaven Posted July 12, 2012 Report Posted July 12, 2012 -1 for dis topic dex class would be so OP if u agree on this topic
Levis Posted July 12, 2012 Report Posted July 12, 2012 -1 for dis topic dex class would be so OP if u agree on this topic Excuse me, they are far better than most STR classes.
Lightofheaven Posted July 12, 2012 Report Posted July 12, 2012 look at this sniper can carry like 300+ seeds when you using the new belts
zergling Posted July 12, 2012 Report Posted July 12, 2012 yea i have seen a GS keep up with drax on his sniper so you can't tell me that a GS can't keep up with a sniper. the class is the way it is because if it was changed then everything would be broken. each class has it's weakness that's a given. GS can't carry many supplies, sniper is nulled by pneuma that's just the way it is. by changing these things the classes become more and more imbalanced and this will cause other problems.
Boklek Posted July 12, 2012 Report Posted July 12, 2012 some attacks of Gs nulled by pneuma. so by looking at your reason. GS has more weakness compare to snipers. and Desp can also be nulled my land protection.
killee07 Posted July 12, 2012 Report Posted July 12, 2012 -1. I totally support Shadi's arguments. For me, the Enlarge Weight Limit skill should be exclusive to the merchant class in the first place. I don't understand why exclusive skills are being given to other classes. There are advantages and disadvantages in every class. If you want HP, go Paladin. If you want melee DPS, go SinX. If you want magic DPS, go Prof. And so on. A certain class shouldn't have everything (damage,HP,reductions,etc.). Cheers!
Meka Meka Posted July 12, 2012 Author Report Posted July 12, 2012 (edited) I like your reasoning killee but I don't think we're getting rid of EWL10 on Sniper, Stalker, Prof, Wiz, Gypsy/Clown etc anytime soon. Edited July 12, 2012 by Meka Meka
killee07 Posted July 12, 2012 Report Posted July 12, 2012 That's why the exclusivity of skills should've been preserved (and 2-handed weapons should've always been 2-handed). So topics like these would've never been discussed. But it's too late for that. GS's are okay the way they are now (wield a shield while Desping), and honestly I consider them OP that way. So still -1 for EWL. Focus more on under-powered classes (Biochem, etc.).
zergling Posted July 17, 2012 Report Posted July 17, 2012 i cannot agree more the GS class is perfectly fine as they are even a bit OP.
Meka Meka Posted July 19, 2012 Author Report Posted July 19, 2012 Desperado is not difficult to avoid. It's high DPS, but still tankable. Gunslinger wouldn't even be playable without a shield. How could they compete? That's why they were given Valis so they weren't just a novelty class. Just want to reiterate we're talking about +65 (EWL5) or +130 (EWL10) weight in SEEDS. That's it. No other boost.
Amicable Posted July 19, 2012 Report Posted July 19, 2012 Desperado is not difficult to avoid. It's high DPS, but still tankable. Gunslinger wouldn't even be playable without a shield. How could they compete? That's why they were given Valis so they weren't just a novelty class. Just want to reiterate we're talking about +65 (EWL5) or +130 (EWL10) weight in SEEDS. That's it. No other boost. Enlarged Weight Level 5 is fine, I mean 65 more seeds to hold is really good especially if they have to spam desperado, BUT that's just me~
zergling Posted July 22, 2012 Report Posted July 22, 2012 GS didn't have a shield back in the day so you can't tell me the class was useless without a shield. the class was perfectly fine just like snipers back when their bow was 2 handed.
Meka Meka Posted July 22, 2012 Author Report Posted July 22, 2012 GS didn't have a shield back in the day so you can't tell me the class was useless without a shield. the class was perfectly fine just like snipers back when their bow was 2 handed. Nice generalization there. Then let's just make Sniper Soaring Bird 2handed again while we're at it. Easy fix, right? Anyways, I've stated my position in tangible numbers, not really much more to say.
zergling Posted July 23, 2012 Report Posted July 23, 2012 As I recall snipers also had a 2 handed bow and yet there were plenty seen. So please if you're going to make it seem like GS are so underpowered compared to a sniper please know your history first. The class is perfectly fine it doesn't need enlarge weight limit. To be honest the only classes that should have the skill are merchant baised classes, each class has it's advantages and disadvantages that's just the way the game was made trying to make every single class over powered won't do anything except to cause more problems.
Veracity Posted July 29, 2012 Report Posted July 29, 2012 As I recall snipers also had a 2 handed bow and yet there were plenty seen. So please if you're going to make it seem like GS are so underpowered compared to a sniper please know your history first. The class is perfectly fine it doesn't need enlarge weight limit. To be honest the only classes that should have the skill are merchant baised classes, each class has it's advantages and disadvantages that's just the way the game was made trying to make every single class over powered won't do anything except to cause more problems. Actually, your first statement isn't true at all. A lot more people have been playing different classes than before. There's a lot more snipers and many other classes playing since we introduced the new weapons. RO's mechanics were designed for low rates, obviously, and on higher rates there is a bigger disparity between class performance. This is why on nearly every high rate you will see it dominated by the same few classes. We made alterations to try to even out the playing field and make it so other classes could stand a chance in PvP, even if it meant sacrificing some of Gravity's original design. If this is a problem for you, it sounds like you may be happier playing on an official server. What Meka's suggesting is far from making a class OP, which is why we're willing to try it. If it does become an issue then we can consider changing it.
