.Kyuubi. Posted October 17, 2011 Report Posted October 17, 2011 Long story short. The whitesmith class is currently overpowered and needs to be balanced. These changes are most likely going to happen because it isnt people that play different classes voting for the change, its us; the whitesmith class players. I've played WS longer than any of you on the server (believe me I have) and the ONLY reason you're even touching the class now is because they're overpowered.
kuoch Posted October 17, 2011 Report Posted October 17, 2011 Overpower or not, you guys shouldn't even be arguing and saying "I donated, no nerf pls" That goes for all the other weapons that got nerf, why does it matter you say it shouldn't get nerf because you donated money for it. Whitesmith are already versatile. It just has a lot more advantages than the other classes it battles. Remove pnuema and reduce 10-20% on tomahawk, and add it into termination. It's just gives a debuff on the range of whitesmith, that they shouldn't have in the first place. 1
Kittie Posted October 17, 2011 Report Posted October 17, 2011 Long story short. The whitesmith class is currently overpowered and needs to be balanced. These changes are most likely going to happen because it isnt people that play different classes voting for the change, its us; the whitesmith class players. I've played WS longer than any of you on the server (believe me I have) and the ONLY reason you're even touching the class now is because they're overpowered.I always main WS on low rate servers, so I'm actually disappointed with the Tomohawk skill on the current weapon. I can't wait to have it go back to a cart termination based class! 2
Veralynn Posted October 17, 2011 Report Posted October 17, 2011 I always main WS on low rate servers, so I'm actually disappointed with the Tomohawk skill on the current weapon. I can't wait to have it go back to a cart termination based class!When it does, I'm donating for another Thor. TT was sooo boring, will be nice to have WS be a skill-based class again ^^
Sorrow Posted October 17, 2011 Report Posted October 17, 2011 i think removing TT and giving pure buffs only to cart termination will be bad, without TT they get easily overwhelmed by classes with ranged attacks(aka; everyone but sinx) because really, walking 6 cells away after an auto dispell or auto agi decrease and just spam something that makes stun lock on the WS is simple as swapping shields. That's what caused WSs to be eclipsed by every other class out there before the weapon came along, so think carefully about the whole 'remove TT' thingy guys... Be careful on the desired changes you guys want, i don't play WS, but it worries me when it starts to appear that after so many time thrown in the darkness, WS players seem to want to throw everything they've gotten away, it'd be sad if they gotten back to be underated kill-nothing-and-everyone-owns whimps they used to be XD Just saying...
Kittie Posted October 17, 2011 Report Posted October 17, 2011 i think removing TT and giving pure buffs only to cart termination will be bad, without TT they get easily overwhelmed by classes with ranged attacks(aka; everyone but sinx) because really, walking 6 cells away after an auto dispell or auto agi decrease and just spam something that makes stun lock on the WS is simple as swapping shields. That's what caused WSs to be eclipsed by every other class out there before the weapon came along, so think carefully about the whole 'remove TT' thingy guys... Be careful on the desired changes you guys want, i don't play WS, but it worries me when it starts to appear that after so many time thrown in the darkness, WS players seem to want to throw everything they've gotten away, it'd be sad if they gotten back to be underated kill-nothing-and-everyone-owns whimps they used to be XD Just saying... You know I love you but I think you need to reread the suggestion since no one is saying "remove TT".
.Kyuubi. Posted October 17, 2011 Report Posted October 17, 2011 The suggestion isnt to remove Throw tomohawk, its to remove Pneuma from the Thors Hammer and reduce damage from Throw Tomohawk because the 2 skills synergized together on a melee class is too overwhelming
Sorrow Posted October 17, 2011 Report Posted October 17, 2011 The last posts seemed to have gone in that direction with the 'CT based' and 'disapointed with tomahawk' ^^" i'm just concerned with the class and players who enjoy it is all, if the nerf is too big they might become too weak once again ^^" and since tunning up or down items and whatnot is something that happens with time, if this nerf ends up too big, the next 'adjustment' will take time(if happens at all) XD But ya, so long as you guys, the WhiteSmith players, are happy with the class you have my support xD i'd like to see numbers as to what each of you think TT should be reduced to and CT buffed tho, to get a better idea of what each of you talking about & its practical changes :3 i saw some people saying 1100% instead of 2000% for TT and honestly i think that's too much of a nerf. Specially since CT and TT work on different shoes(literally FBH vs Master Forger).
Kittie Posted October 18, 2011 Report Posted October 18, 2011 If you read through it, I believe the desired damage output is: TT = 15-20k CT = 30-40k And Bishop suggested 1700% instead of 2000% if I recall correctly on TT damage.
Sorrow Posted October 18, 2011 Report Posted October 18, 2011 i believe +5k on each of the damage variables would be better tho. Like TT: 20~25k CT: 35~45k Snipers get past 45k DS & FAS, same is truth for Clowns with their AVs. i think that for having to attack at point blank range, hitting a single target, expending a bunch of money & must being buffed(dispell screws that over), WS should deal heavier damage with CT than a sniper with their one buttom across the screen DS ^^"
Seraphine Posted October 18, 2011 Report Posted October 18, 2011 (edited) Misread that, completely wrong. That sounds good to me. Edited October 18, 2011 by Seraphine
Kittie Posted October 18, 2011 Report Posted October 18, 2011 i believe +5k on each of the damage variables would be better tho. Like TT: 20~25k CT: 35~45k I think 50k would actually be wonderful for CT but I didn't want to say it.
Xtopher Posted October 18, 2011 Author Report Posted October 18, 2011 I think 45-50k is a bit much. That's about 1/4 of a lot of people's HP... and CT can be spammed pretty quickly.
.Kyuubi. Posted October 18, 2011 Report Posted October 18, 2011 lol im ok with doing 35k-40/45k ct damage
Bishop Posted October 18, 2011 Report Posted October 18, 2011 Personally I was thinking about the 45k~50k mark as well. This skill SHOULD overpower most skills from other classes. Cause it requires close combat and many buffs to use, besides that there are easy workarounds against the skill. WS should be powerhouses close combat and be able to guard themselfs slightly in range combat with TT. However the question is how much % would have to be added to get up to this mark. I personally have no idea cause the 30% from oriental didn't seem to add anything serious before. These % boosts on CT are very hard to measure because adding x% of nearly nothing remains nearly nothing. This is all because everything scales with the higher rates except for CT because it's based on cart weight. Which stayed the same even though everything else got boosted by the stat increase. I also think boosting CT should not only be through the valk weapon (cause not everyone can afford it), I'd recommend giving part of the boost to the valk weapon and the other part to the master forger card. This way less 'rich' people gain a boost for their WS as well, which is needed cause without thor WS are quite weak.
Nelly Posted October 18, 2011 Report Posted October 18, 2011 i wish i cant -1 ON ALL OF YEW GUY D< ..... NO NO NO NO if it nerfed nid trow shuriken also OP (they also killing gearless) -1 On tiZ 2
.Kyuubi. Posted October 18, 2011 Report Posted October 18, 2011 (edited) Personally I was thinking about the 45k~50k mark as well. This skill SHOULD overpower most skills from other classes. Cause it requires close combat and many buffs to use, besides that there are easy workarounds against the skill. WS should be powerhouses close combat and be able to guard themselfs slightly in range combat with TT. However the question is how much % would have to be added to get up to this mark. I personally have no idea cause the 30% from oriental didn't seem to add anything serious before. These % boosts on CT are very hard to measure because adding x% of nearly nothing remains nearly nothing. This is all because everything scales with the higher rates except for CT because it's based on cart weight. Which stayed the same even though everything else got boosted by the stat increase. I also think boosting CT should not only be through the valk weapon (cause not everyone can afford it), I'd recommend giving part of the boost to the valk weapon and the other part to the master forger card. This way less 'rich' people gain a boost for their WS as well, which is needed cause without thor WS are quite weak. I think an EASY solution to what % should be added to the boost to cart termination should just be to increase the amount of ATK the Thors Hammer gives (since cart term is atk based it would seem much simpler to increase the ATK modifier on the weapon than just increasing % based damage). what do u guys think? I think a 20-30% increase on each forsaken master forger card boost would be enough to increase non donor ws (atleast those without the thors hammer) Edited October 18, 2011 by .Kyuubi.
Xtopher Posted October 18, 2011 Author Report Posted October 18, 2011 Personally I was thinking about the 45k~50k mark as well. This skill SHOULD overpower most skills from other classes. Cause it requires close combat and many buffs to use, besides that there are easy workarounds against the skill. WS should be powerhouses close combat and be able to guard themselfs slightly in range combat with TT. However the question is how much % would have to be added to get up to this mark. I personally have no idea cause the 30% from oriental didn't seem to add anything serious before. These % boosts on CT are very hard to measure because adding x% of nearly nothing remains nearly nothing. This is all because everything scales with the higher rates except for CT because it's based on cart weight. Which stayed the same even though everything else got boosted by the stat increase. I also think boosting CT should not only be through the valk weapon (cause not everyone can afford it), I'd recommend giving part of the boost to the valk weapon and the other part to the master forger card. This way less 'rich' people gain a boost for their WS as well, which is needed cause without thor WS are quite weak. Not all classes can really afford to dispel/dec agi. I still think 45-50k is a bit much. Given the HIGH spam-ability and the high amount of people using programs to spam faster lower hp classes (Champ/Clown/SG/Mages) will drop them quickly. 1
.Kyuubi. Posted October 18, 2011 Report Posted October 18, 2011 I think adding +500 ATK to the already +200 atk on the thors hammer would/should increase the damage significantly (with full buffs) and a 25% forsaken master forger cards boost increase would get cart term to where we want it to be 1
Halion Posted October 18, 2011 Report Posted October 18, 2011 I agree with removing pneuma skill from thor's hammer because whitesmiths are the only job besides champion that can do meele and ranged skills but causing deadly damage. If the pneuma skill stays it will be OP because they won't only survive meele ( because of the high HP ), they will survive vs ranged too. In conclusion, Thor's Hammer should get endure skill instead of pneuma skill. PD: ws Vs champ, if they can survive my asura and block my TSS then im screwed.
Kittie Posted October 18, 2011 Report Posted October 18, 2011 I think adding +500 ATK to the already +200 atk on the thors hammer would/should increase the damage significantly (with full buffs) and a 25% forsaken master forger cards boost increase would get cart term to where we want it to beWouldn't that also change the damage on TT too?
.Kyuubi. Posted October 18, 2011 Report Posted October 18, 2011 it wouldnt change as much especially if they reduce the +2000% damage increase that the thors hammer gives it. It definately wont affect the TT damage as much as it would affect Cart Terms
Sorrow Posted October 19, 2011 Report Posted October 19, 2011 i actually think 50k peaks on Cart Termination is quite fair, i mean, its a mediam damage needed in order to kill anything actually. i really don't think its overpowered(one third of my main character's life tho xD) seeing as it is almost in the same boat Asura is...with the whole requiring buffs and being meelee only. But yeah i'm not sure just how much of a % up or atk+ would be necessary to attain that much, Cart Temination faces severe penalties in its calculation when transfered from a low rate to a high rate, besides RO mechanics for calculation are a bit weird.
Xtopher Posted October 19, 2011 Author Report Posted October 19, 2011 i actually think 50k peaks on Cart Termination is quite fair, i mean, its a mediam damage needed in order to kill anything actually. i really don't think its overpowered(one third of my main character's life tho xD) seeing as it is almost in the same boat Asura is...with the whole requiring buffs and being meelee only. But yeah i'm not sure just how much of a % up or atk+ would be necessary to attain that much, Cart Temination faces severe penalties in its calculation when transfered from a low rate to a high rate, besides RO mechanics for calculation are a bit weird. CT just requires cart boost. Asura requires zen+fury+zen+asura+ygg rinse repeat to spam. CT is MUCH more spam-able than asura will never be. Even Yukumaru can't spam asuras as fast as the noobiest WS can spam CT. I just don't know if a class should be spamming a skill that does 1/3-1/4 of some class's HP without kiels and while wearing redux.
