Lets Talk About Whitesmiths

[HealHard]

2000 -> 1100-1400 is a HUGE debuff. smart people gonna reduce that to 9k dmg so it will become totally useless. do you know that desrease agi prevents you from using CT? and you need all those rebuffs again?

I already showed you that thow does like 20k dmg already. I see no real reason to decrease this damage (maybe by 5-10% at MOST). Remove pneuma as it was already said and buff CT.

[Kittie]

2000 -> 1100-1400 is a HUGE debuff. smart people gonna reduce that to 9k dmg so it will become totally useless. do you know that desrease agi prevents you from using CT? and you need all those rebuffs again?

I already showed you that thow does like 20k dmg already. I see no real reason to decrease this damage (maybe by 5-10% at MOST). Remove pneuma as it was already said and buff CT.

My Tomohawk damage does 30k at the moment against Frigg+Usako and SGW users, which is pretty much standard in PVP. If that percentage brings the damage down to 15-20k using double FBH, and a double TG, Incant, and Phree weapon, then that should be good. If not, then it needs to be adjusted. 20k should be the maximum damage for that skill in my opinion.

CT should be buffed up to 30-40k - it should do more than the current Tomohawk damage since it needs to be up close to use it and needs all the buffs to use it correctly. I don't know what percentage that is, I'll let the 'masters' figure that out.

[Sorrow]

Agreed, WS are a tad too powerful, even if i do find it extremely entertaining how a previously super underated class is now whooping everyone's asses XD

-Swap Lv 1 Pneuma for Lv 10 Endure.

Honestly, Pneuma is a too powerful skill to be given like that to anyone you know...i wish Champs were stripped off their right to use it too, but that would be wish too much.

-Throw Toma damage buff reduced from 2000% to 1500~1600%.

Indeed Toma is a bit too overwhelming atm, but it is a very needed skill for WS since they have no option for range, so reducing one quater of the damage it deals now should be more than enough to stop all this crying.

-CT damage boost by further 30%+.

CT should be the skill that makes them shine after all.

Disagree on any other kind of change.

[.Kyuubi.]

-1 Disagree i donated for this weapon id love to not see it go to hell.

nah..you dont sound bias at all..nop not at all (sarcasm)

I'm glad everyone's moving toward agreement.

From what I can tell:

Remove pneuma and add endure to thor's hammer.

Reduce tomahawk damage from 2000% to maybe 1100% to 1400%

Increase High Speed Cart Ram damage (This could be done by buffing master forger cards / adding more of a benefit to the thor's hammer).

Thoughts?

ok so heres what i think, reduce tomohawk damage to a minimum of 1600%-1800% i think anymore than that and it'll become pretty much useless (i can help test if needed) and increase the damage output on the thors hammer for CT from 50% to 100% and each of the Forsaken Master Forger cards by 20% and see how that does. any comments?

[Seraphine]

2000 -> 1100-1400 is a HUGE debuff. smart people gonna reduce that to 9k dmg so it will become totally useless. do you know that desrease agi prevents you from using CT? and you need all those rebuffs again?

I already showed you that thow does like 20k dmg already. I see no real reason to decrease this damage (maybe by 5-10% at MOST). Remove pneuma as it was already said and buff CT.

The skill as it is, is overpowered it needs to be changed. 5-10% won't do anything the skill should only do about 20k damage at maximum(as it's Very easy to spam)

-1 Disagree i donated for this weapon id love to not see it go to hell.

Like others have said that's not a valid reason to disagree with this suggestion. Weapon Effects will always be subject to change if they are deemed overpowered or unbalanced by the community and staff.

Edited October 14, 2011 by Seraphine

[Veralynn]

-1 Disagree i donated for this weapon id love to not see it go to hell.

I donated for 4 of them, so my arguement holds more weight (by your logic) nerf TT and buff CT! But in all seriousness I agree with the proposed changes.

[Bishop]

ok so heres what i think, reduce tomohawk damage to a minimum of 1600%-1800% i think anymore than that and it'll become pretty much useless (i can help test if needed) and increase the damage output on the thors hammer for CT from 50% to 100% and each of the Forsaken Master Forger cards by 20% and see how that does. any comments?

These numbers sound reasonable to me. It should make WS quite a big damage dealer short range while still having the disadvantages of all the rebuffing and distance. Tommahawk should still be usefull at a 1700% dmg increase. So I agree that these numbers are worth testing.

[golden]

Even though ws may be a so called "overpowered class" when gs's came out wit 1h guns and snipers with 1h bows no one complained

and imo they are also on the same rank as ws. I think its people's[Not new players] lack of skill to fight back or find a new way to pvp against them there looking

for the easiest way out just get them nerf. I think this is unfair to the people that spent there money to get a thor's hammer with the effects

that it has just for it to get changed because certain people don't want to pvp around it. I like ws the way it is now, I'm glad they added 2 new skills to

help ws's fight back because in the old days of only ct slow speed/quamire owns them. Lastly there not invincible there ways around them just learn them.

[Fabre Stalker]

Even though ws may be a so called "overpowered class" when gs's came out wit 1h guns and snipers with 1h bows no one complained

and imo they are also on the same rank as ws. I think its people's[Not new players] lack of skill to fight back or find a new way to pvp against them there looking

for the easiest way out just get them nerf. I think this is unfair to the people that spent there money to get a thor's hammer with the effects

that it has just for it to get changed because certain people don't want to pvp around it. I like ws the way it is now, I'm glad they added 2 new skills to

help ws's fight back because in the old days of only ct slow speed/quamire owns them. Lastly there not invincible there ways around them just learn them.

^ Agree!

Just because they gave WS a way to defend themselves for once and you wanna see it get taken away because your to lazy to learn to fight. :P WS is easy to kill just as any other class is. I agree just fight around it.

[.Kyuubi.]

Even though ws may be a so called "overpowered class" when gs's came out wit 1h guns and snipers with 1h bows no one complained

and imo they are also on the same rank as ws. I think its people's[Not new players] lack of skill to fight back or find a new way to pvp against them there looking

for the easiest way out just get them nerf. I think this is unfair to the people that spent there money to get a thor's hammer with the effects

that it has just for it to get changed because certain people don't want to pvp around it. I like ws the way it is now, I'm glad they added 2 new skills to

help ws's fight back because in the old days of only ct slow speed/quamire owns them. Lastly there not invincible there ways around them just learn them.

so you're saying that our ability to pneuma, put on RSX armor and spam tomohawk to our hearts content is balanced? the way i see other whitesmiths fighting now is pure tomohawk battles. the idiots even try to attack palies with tomohawk because they're like "OH THIS SKILL OP I USE IT ON EVRTING" learn how to play the class yourself. the changes that are being made are necessary for pvp balance.

@fabre..stop..just stop

[Xtopher]

Even though ws may be a so called "overpowered class" when gs's came out wit 1h guns and snipers with 1h bows no one complained

and imo they are also on the same rank as ws. I think its people's[Not new players] lack of skill to fight back or find a new way to pvp against them there looking

for the easiest way out just get them nerf. I think this is unfair to the people that spent there money to get a thor's hammer with the effects

that it has just for it to get changed because certain people don't want to pvp around it. I like ws the way it is now, I'm glad they added 2 new skills to

help ws's fight back because in the old days of only ct slow speed/quamire owns them. Lastly there not invincible there ways around them just learn them.

It seriously gives me a headache to read this. Please at least try to type in complete sentences without hitting enter half way through.

Gunslingers/Snipers/Stalkers/Clowns were given one hand bows because on this server you are entirely too squish without a shield. None of these classes had enough damage output to make up for the fact that they couldn't have a shield. And you're wrong about people complaining. People always complain about something. There was massive debate over the one handed bows and in the end the argument for the bows won. Whitesmith, however, had a different problem. They were completely shit on by anything with range. So, to try and fix this the staff made a weapon with a buffed ranged attack AND pnuema which shuts down all ranged damage. What may have seemed like a good idea at the time is obviously not fair and has even twisted the class to make it into something that it isn't. Removing pnuema makes the class vulnerable to long range attacks while leaving tomahawk gives them a way to fight back.

Lack of skill? Let's talk about lack of skill. Some of the best PvPers on the server can't do shit against a whitesmith who puts in maybe 10 minutes of thought before playing the class. Any and all ranged classes are completely shut down by rsx/gr and pnuema. Don't use champions as a counter argument example because frankly, you aren't a champion, you're a whitesmith. Champions have much lower HP and have to spam zen+ throw sphere (Which actually requires skill to do quickly) as apposed to your endless 1 click tomahawk spam. As Kyuubi said, most of the whitesmiths out there don't even cart term. Hell, I had a smith with 45k tomahawks ask me what master forger cards do the other day! It's very easy to see where the lack of skill is in this whole argument, and it isn't the 95% of the people in this topic who are agreeing to a nerf. You are right, there are ways around smith. The only ways I see to really take out a smith is: 1 coma (Always a fall back) and a fully equipped lord knight with at least some pvp skill. Do you really expect everyone on the server to fully gear an LK just to out tank the over powered smith class? That is hardly balanced.

Lastly, you're selfish. Multiple valk weapons that people have donated for have been nerfed. Don't you think I would like my super stalker redux back? My 200% spiral? Sure, if I were a selfish prick who only wanted whats best for himself... However, I'm not.

[Josh.]

It seriously gives me a headache to read this. Please at least try to type in complete sentences without hitting enter half way through.

Gunslingers/Snipers/Stalkers/Clowns were given one hand bows because on this server you are entirely too squish without a shield. None of these classes had enough damage output to make up for the fact that they couldn't have a shield. And you're wrong about people complaining. People always complain about something. There was massive debate over the one handed bows and in the end the argument for the bows won. Whitesmith, however, had a different problem. They were completely shit on by anything with range. So, to try and fix this the staff made a weapon with a buffed ranged attack AND pnuema which shuts down all ranged damage. What may have seemed like a good idea at the time is obviously not fair and has even twisted the class to make it into something that it isn't. Removing pnuema makes the class vulnerable to long range attacks while leaving tomahawk gives them a way to fight back.

Lack of skill? Let's talk about lack of skill. Some of the best PvPers on the server can't do shit against a whitesmith who puts in maybe 10 minutes of thought before playing the class. Any and all ranged classes are completely shut down by rsx/gr and pnuema. Don't use champions as a counter argument example because frankly, you aren't a champion, you're a whitesmith. Champions have much lower HP and have to spam zen+ throw sphere (Which actually requires skill to do quickly) as apposed to your endless 1 click tomahawk spam. As Kyuubi said, most of the whitesmiths out there don't even cart term. Hell, I had a smith with 45k tomahawks ask me what master forger cards do the other day! It's very easy to see where the lack of skill is in this whole argument, and it isn't the 95% of the people in this topic who are agreeing to a nerf. You are right, there are ways around smith. The only ways I see to really take out a smith is: 1 coma (Always a fall back) and a fully equipped lord knight with at least some pvp skill. Do you really expect everyone on the server to fully gear an LK just to out tank the over powered smith class? That is hardly balanced.

Lastly, you're selfish. Multiple valk weapons that people have donated for have been nerfed. Don't you think I would like my super stalker redux back? My 200% spiral? Sure, if I were a selfish prick who only wanted whats best for himself... However, I'm not.

+1 to that chris.

[Perishable]

+1 to that chris.

I'm tired of reading a +1 post. It doesn't explain anything since people keep imitating it. It's not cool anymore. Why do you even +1? I just want to read this story about Whitesmiths bro, no hard feelings.

[Josh.]

I'm tired of reading a +1 post. It doesn't explain anything since people keep imitating it. It's not cool anymore. Why do you even +1? I just want to read this story about Whitesmiths bro, no hard feelings.

because it clearly Shows that players agree when they " +1 Post "

[Perishable]

because it clearly Shows that players agree when they " +1 Post "

What did you agree to then? There's no explanation than "+1".

Though, I agree with you Chris, I'm not against you. I respect you and I agree with the removal of Pneuma skill. It dodges all long-ranged skills but... so what? Whitesmiths have Throw Tomahawks to fight back when wearing a Thor. Being able to Throw Tomahawks and Pneuma on range class isn't fair, not at all as Chris stated. Long-ranged class spams yggs while Whitesmiths with Pneuma on have more advantages.

[Seraphine]

Even though ws may be a so called "overpowered class" when gs's came out wit 1h guns and snipers with 1h bows no one complained

and imo they are also on the same rank as ws. I think its people's[Not new players] lack of skill to fight back or find a new way to pvp against them there looking

for the easiest way out just get them nerf. I think this is unfair to the people that spent there money to get a thor's hammer with the effects

that it has just for it to get changed because certain people don't want to pvp around it. I like ws the way it is now, I'm glad they added 2 new skills to

help ws's fight back because in the old days of only ct slow speed/quamire owns them. Lastly there not invincible there ways around them just learn them.

Effects are always subject to change if the community(mostly community) and staff deems them overpowered or unbalanced. Whitesmiths are no doubt a more superior class pvp wise then almost any other class, from what I've seen, and in my opinion they need to be toned down,there a short ranged class with a long range skill, and a long range counter( pneuma ).

Edited October 16, 2011 by Seraphine

[Kittie]

Even though ws may be a so called "overpowered class" when gs's came out wit 1h guns and snipers with 1h bows no one complained

and imo they are also on the same rank as ws. I think its people's[Not new players] lack of skill to fight back or find a new way to pvp against them there looking

for the easiest way out just get them nerf. I think this is unfair to the people that spent there money to get a thor's hammer with the effects

that it has just for it to get changed because certain people don't want to pvp around it. I like ws the way it is now, I'm glad they added 2 new skills to

help ws's fight back because in the old days of only ct slow speed/quamire owns them. Lastly there not invincible there ways around them just learn them.

^ Agree!

Just because they gave WS a way to defend themselves for once and you wanna see it get taken away because your to lazy to learn to fight. :P WS is easy to kill just as any other class is. I agree just fight around it.

I think it needs to be stated for these two people that - for the record - a lot of people agree'ing to these changes main and/or play the Whitesmith Class and use the Thor's hammer. And we all agree that it's overpowered right now and not really the right boosts for the right skills.

This isn't a group of people that are complaining about fighting WS's and whining.

This change isn't going to 'nerf' the WS class - in fact, I think it'll make them better in my opinion.

Edited October 16, 2011 by Kittie

[.Kyuubi.]

I think it needs to be stated for these two people that - for the record - a lot of people agree'ing to these changes main and/or play the Whitesmith Class and use the Thor's hammer. And we all agree that it's overpowered right now and not really the right boosts for the right skills.

This isn't a group of people that are complaining about fighting WS's and whining.

This change isn't going to 'nerf' the WS class - in fact, I think it'll make them better in my opinion.

+1 lol

[golden]

so you're saying that our ability to pneuma, put on RSX armor and spam tomohawk to our hearts content is balanced? the way i see other whitesmiths fighting now is pure tomohawk battles. the idiots even try to attack palies with tomohawk because they're like "OH THIS SKILL OP I USE IT ON EVRTING" learn how to play the class yourself. the changes that are being made are necessary for pvp balance.

@fabre..stop..just stop

I'm glad you said that, its semi true but i disagree with the part about pneuma and rsx. Even though that seems like it cant be gotten around

it can because i have done it and iv seen other people do it as well[People with real skill] Also the only people that tomohawk pallys are noobs because

everyone know that pallys are weak to Ct not Tomohawk, Me personaly iv only Tomohawked a pally when i have dispelled them.

I think ws is a good class in pvp[The way it is] But people are just scared of a good challenge so they rather not deal with it, Imo Gs is just as overpowered as

ws.

[golden]

It seriously gives me a headache to read this. Please at least try to type in complete sentences without hitting enter half way through.

Gunslingers/Snipers/Stalkers/Clowns were given one hand bows because on this server you are entirely too squish without a shield. None of these classes had enough damage output to make up for the fact that they couldn't have a shield. And you're wrong about people complaining. People always complain about something. There was massive debate over the one handed bows and in the end the argument for the bows won. Whitesmith, however, had a different problem. They were completely shit on by anything with range. So, to try and fix this the staff made a weapon with a buffed ranged attack AND pnuema which shuts down all ranged damage. What may have seemed like a good idea at the time is obviously not fair and has even twisted the class to make it into something that it isn't. Removing pnuema makes the class vulnerable to long range attacks while leaving tomahawk gives them a way to fight back.

Lack of skill? Let's talk about lack of skill. Some of the best PvPers on the server can't do shit against a whitesmith who puts in maybe 10 minutes of thought before playing the class. Any and all ranged classes are completely shut down by rsx/gr and pnuema. Don't use champions as a counter argument example because frankly, you aren't a champion, you're a whitesmith. Champions have much lower HP and have to spam zen+ throw sphere (Which actually requires skill to do quickly) as apposed to your endless 1 click tomahawk spam. As Kyuubi said, most of the whitesmiths out there don't even cart term. Hell, I had a smith with 45k tomahawks ask me what master forger cards do the other day! It's very easy to see where the lack of skill is in this whole argument, and it isn't the 95% of the people in this topic who are agreeing to a nerf. You are right, there are ways around smith. The only ways I see to really take out a smith is: 1 coma (Always a fall back) and a fully equipped lord knight with at least some pvp skill. Do you really expect everyone on the server to fully gear an LK just to out tank the over powered smith class? That is hardly balanced.

Lastly, you're selfish. Multiple valk weapons that people have donated for have been nerfed. Don't you think I would like my super stalker redux back? My 200% spiral? Sure, if I were a selfish prick who only wanted whats best for himself... However, I'm not.

First off If my post is giving u a headache don't read it[if i want to use enter 1000 times that's my choice as long as I'm speaking English, which u can understand obviously because you commented O.o], Secondly i on the topic of 1h weapons i understand that those changes needed to be made but my focus was on gs being as overpowered as ws. Also don't just assume that i don't play champ because i do iv played champ for 3 or 4 years on fro[As well as the old ws when it was only CT] so I'm fully aware of the advantages and disadvantages of that class and iv killed smiths on my champ as well. Also the fact that people use tomohawk for everything, i do believe that they spent [tokens or money] for that. So if they chose to tomohawk all day i believe that's there right, how can u be mad at that like wth? if i have a thors hammer and i only ct your gonna get mad and say wow he doesn't even tomohawk ? I think that if they raise the damage on ct and lower tomohawk damage people are just going to complain again about how ws ct damage is overpower, that's the only reason I'm saying to leave it alone.

Lastly I'm not selfish i just don't want to see this class go out like this after it was just becoming fun to play again.

[Kittie]

I think that if they raise the damage on ct and lower tomohawk damage people are just going to complain again about how ws ct damage is overpower, that's the only reason I'm saying to leave it alone.

I don't think you thought that one through. CT can be canceled out using decrease agility and dispel, of which everyone really has the ability to dispel. Also, you can push back WS to prevent them from using CT since you have to be up close to use the skill. That's why the tradeoff between high damage is plausible, since it has it's weaknesses.

The problem right now is the Tomohawk abuse - it's long range, so WS don't need to be up close, you can BB them away, but they'll still be able to Tomohawk you from a ranged distance. Additionally, not everyone is willing to trade a belt and go defensive with an auto-pneuma accessory, so the high damage along with the range is absolutely crippling.

The WS class was never designed to be ranged, which is why we are trying to decrease the long ranged effectiveness of the class - it's an odd play style on a class that is traditionally a close-ranged nuker with tanking abilities.

@Xtopher - it's amazing to see how many WS vs WS fights I'm in, where I pneuma and the other WS just keeps Tomohawking, or Cart Revs me. It's like they don't even have CT on their hotkeys.

[Veralynn]

so you're saying that our ability to pneuma, put on RSX armor and spam tomohawk to our hearts content is balanced? the way i see other whitesmiths fighting now is pure tomohawk battles. the idiots even try to attack palies with tomohawk because they're like "OH THIS SKILL OP I USE IT ON EVRTING" learn how to play the class yourself. the changes that are being made are necessary for pvp balance.

@fabre..stop..just stop

What kyuubi said, I played WS for a week and then sold my thor because it's a stupid class to play at the moment. It takes absolutely no skill to play. If you want to EZ-mode go make a palladin, WS is over powered and needs to be balanced (not nerfed).

I'm glad you said that, its semi true but i disagree with the part about pneuma and rsx. Even though that seems like it cant be gotten around

it can because i have done it and iv seen other people do it as well[People with real skill] Also the only people that tomohawk pallys are noobs because

everyone know that pallys are weak to Ct not Tomohawk, Me personaly iv only Tomohawked a pally when i have dispelled them.

I think ws is a good class in pvp[The way it is] But people are just scared of a good challenge so they rather not deal with it, Imo Gs is just as overpowered as

ws.

GS requires you to be in melee range to dish out any serious damage. GS does not have pneuma, GS has to spam yggs as much as champs do, due to a severe lack of SP, GS lack Increase Weight limit and can carry a total of 200 seeds, and GS require 3 Kiels to spam. Your argument is invalid.

[GenericName]

Effects are always subject to change if the community(mostly community) and staff deems them overpowered or unbalanced. Whitesmiths are no doubt a more superior class pvp wise then almost any other class, from what I've seen, and in my opinion they need to be toned down,there a short ranged class with a long range skill, and a long range counter( pneuma ).

They should have never been given TT in the first place, there have been SEVERAL topics about boosting CT's damage in the past, and nobody wanted it then. I also believe that all shit hit the fan the moment ALL of the valk weapons came out, and pvp on this server is pretty stupid now-a-days anyways. If you're going to say "things are subject to change".. It should be very clear for people to read before they donate for such items. Also, items should be thoroughly tested before they are released for donation.

Edited October 17, 2011 by GenericName

[Xtopher]

Your argument is invalid.

Damn, I don't even have to post. Well put.

@GenericName: Anything/Everything is always subject to change at the staff's discretion. Whether it be the right or wrong thing to do they make the ultimate decision. It's better for you to learn and accept that now.

Edited October 17, 2011 by Xtopher

[Seraphine]

They should have never been given TT in the first place, there have been SEVERAL topics about boosting CT's damage in the past, and nobody wanted it then. I also believe that all shit hit the fan the moment ALL of the valk weapons came out, and pvp on this server is pretty stupid now-a-days anyways. If you're going to say "things are subject to change".. It should be very clear for people to read before they donate for such items. Also, items should be thoroughly tested before they are released for donation.

Effects can and will change if they are un-balanced/overpowered, the same thing applies to Call of duty or any other game, balance changes will always happen if they are needed,whether you donated for the item or not doesn't change that fact. Items are tested quite extensively but not every situation can be accounted for as there's massive amount's of possible combinations of possible builds and skills, it would take far too long to test all of them.

Edited October 17, 2011 by Seraphine