Angels&Demons Posted February 6, 2011 Report Posted February 6, 2011 I noticed that lately people who has won the ladder had been laddering again. So basically they are dominating the ladder wings. It is also a fact that not all the people have the same low ping since not everyone is near the server therefore those who have higher pings almost always loses to those low pings. Which then makes ladder prizes almost inaccessible to those with high ping since those low ping users always ladder over and over again. My suggestion would be to momentarily ban the winners for 1~2 months so that others may try to win the ladder as well. I also suggest another separate PVP room wherein only 2 people would be able to enter. Winners of ladder almost always win by ganging. Whoever has the bigger gang usually wins. So this room would actually be normal PvP, not gang. The prizes would be the same, and it would be fair for those people who doesn't have enough pool for a big gang. Also, when you enter this pvp room, all your buffs would be taken off (same as when you enter dice room). In this manner, champs who gospel themselves for x2 attack then enter pvp room for 1 hit asura would be nullified.
HealHard Posted February 6, 2011 Report Posted February 6, 2011 Agreed to prohibit re-laddering for several weeks. And also just prohibit parties in PVP room. it gonna be more like LMS helping (if any helpers) instead of huge devoed gangs.
jorgesilvera Posted February 6, 2011 Report Posted February 6, 2011 Agree, it is Player Vs Player not party vs player.
Xtopher Posted February 6, 2011 Report Posted February 6, 2011 I disagree with the first suggestion. It's not other peoples fault that you have high ping so why should they be banned from ladder because of it? Also, the ladder is a great way for semi-geared people to make money if they have friends to support them. Jet and I are decent examples of this. People who ladder back-to-back or multiple times in a month are probably on some sort of holiday or break and are taking advantage of that free time. I don't like the idea of temporarily banning someone for winning... It kind of takes the fun out of it. I suggested a 1v1 room a long time ago and I don't think it got accepted. I'm still in favor of it though as long as it's just a separate pvp room for 1v1 fights.
Cerule Posted February 6, 2011 Report Posted February 6, 2011 I agree with the temporary break thing, but maybe for 2 weeks after winning? Because people just win, get the wings, sell the wings, buy better gear and are then more capable in pvp, so they just ladder again. Also I think parties should not be allowed, because some people just get their guilds to help them or dual-client with a paladin for devotion. Therefore people will less gear have no chance to ladder.
Angels&Demons Posted February 6, 2011 Author Report Posted February 6, 2011 The break if to give chances for others as well. I know it's not people's fault that others have high ping, but that's just saying Asians will never win ladder unless they have a super big gang to back them up. Asians' normal ping ranges from 150 above, my personal lowest ping is 250, so how would I win against people who have less than 100 ping? Yes the answer would be to bring friends who would ladder with you. Although you have a fighting chance, having higher ping than the other also would lessen your chances of winning. In a sense, this would be like annihilation event or GvG. Barely anyone from the Eastern parts of the world are able to participate in those 2 events. I know the server is a Western based server and most probably made for Westerners, but there are a lot of Asians now playing the server, and it would be awesome if the bias would lessen. The 1v1 PvP room is basically a separate room with the same prizes. I don't know if the GMs would agree to this ladder being separate from the normal one. Because if they make it the same ladder, then people would just choose not to go inside the 1v1 PvP room, and just continue to wait with their gang. Laddering is basically about ganging and not about skill. Since you mentioned Jet, I'd use him as an example, I had never seen him enter PvP without at least a pally accompanying him. What chances does another champ have against a champ and a pally? Yes you can bring friends, but it then comes back to who has the bigger gang. Takes the fun away.
Halion Posted February 7, 2011 Report Posted February 7, 2011 1vs1 pvp have more cons than pros, don't need to explain use ur own mind <.< about big gangs, dude u bring gang and i bring my gang, the better gang wins! + more kills for you, whats wrong in gangs? xP about prohibit people who won ladder?, is like man i won ladder and they ban me for 1 week to not ladder, oh gtfo i can ladder the weeks i want, up to myself if i win or lose u guys should try to ladder in a row <,< it sucks!
Perishable Posted February 7, 2011 Report Posted February 7, 2011 The heck? You can't just ask people not to ladder again if they've already won the past week or so. It's a PvP ladder, seriously? People rank and work hard to get to their position. You can't just ask them to lay off that week. People won't let you win easily. There will be competition. Just play better and go against them. Win or lose, hard work pays off. They can get ban for being caught cheating and you get shift up.
nines Posted February 7, 2011 Report Posted February 7, 2011 How about not being jews and let other people have a turn.
Perishable Posted February 8, 2011 Report Posted February 8, 2011 They do have turns. They can start laddering any week and day. Just because the same person is constantly ranking top 1. Position that week and the week after or the week that someone new wants to rank, it shouldn't stop them from doing it. Just ladder against them in PvP room and compete for the top 1. Position. Join someones party and help them ladder if you want different people that are laddering to win.
Masahiro Posted February 8, 2011 Report Posted February 8, 2011 the no party idea isnt so bad a concept but the 1v1 isnt, tht'll just not work out the way you think it would. debuff upon entering pvp room = the best thing coming out of this thread 2nd best = no party, because that means no gospel, no Ws buffs, no devotion and pure pvp ganging will still occur but "mis-haps" are more likely to happen, and who knows a good randoming wizzie can just go in there and create mayhem. but all in all...better pvp
nines Posted February 8, 2011 Report Posted February 8, 2011 Oh man If this were to happen you would all bitch about me so fuckin much. Im a gang ruiner already but if u guys got no devo or buffs so much rage quiting.
supream Posted February 8, 2011 Report Posted February 8, 2011 sometimes i have 12 ping other times i have 80 i still win. if u lag so hard that u cant move then u sholdnt play. thats what i do. also, will that rule be account ban for a week or so? cause i have lots of characters that are maxed out. also i have more then one account and in other cases so do most people.
Xtopher Posted February 8, 2011 Report Posted February 8, 2011 (edited) All I'm getting out of this break rule is that people want ladder to be easier for them. As Somdara has said: The ladder is supposed to be competitive. It is a right of passage for pvpers. You develop your pvp skills with a given class. Make friends and (or) join a guild with high pvp abilities to help you. Then you put your hard work to the test by devoting a week to competing others for a great prize (PvP prizes). The point of ladder is for players to fight each other competitively for prizes. Here are the latest 10 first place ladder winners: Week 126 (11/19/2010) to (11/26/2010) #1: Mtw-Champion Week 127 (11/26/10) to (12/3/10) #1: HerLove Week 128 (12/3/10) to (12/10/10) #1: Shikaku Week 129 (12/10/10) to (12/17/10) #1: Xtopher Week 130 (12/17/10) to (12/24/10) #1: -Emissary Week 131 (12/24/10) to (12/31/10) #1: Xtopher Week 132 (12/31/10) to (01/07/11) #1: Nitro Week 133 (01/07/11) to (01/14/11) #1: Nocturne. Week 134 (01/14/11) to (01/21/11) #1: HerLove Week 135 (01/21/11) to (01/28/11) #1: G|ow Week 136 (01/28/11) to (02/04/11) #1: Drakko As far as I can see only HerLove and I have placed first twice within the last 10 weeks (HerLove having a 6 week break inbetween). I laddered twice because I had nothing else to do over winter break. I don't think there is a problem here with someone monopolizing ladder. I think people just want to make competition easier for themselves by restricting possible competitors... which in my opinion ruins the point of PvP ladder. I've noticed a lot of suggestions lately have just been people wanting things spoon fed to them and it is really getting frustrating, but that's a topic for a different discussion. Edited February 8, 2011 by Xtopher
Seraphine Posted February 8, 2011 Report Posted February 8, 2011 (edited) People should be allowed to ladder when they want it's not "Oh you won last week now it's my turn" You have to earn your kills and if you do that then it doesn't really matter if that person wins 5 weeks in a row but that's not going to happen due to competitive nature of pvp room. The suggestion of a pvp room where only 2 people can enter has alot of down sides people will camp it so hard or rather you would have to be able to actually win and people can just set matches up and get free kills GameMasters can't watch pvp 24/7 and with only 2 people allowed in there it's really hard to tell if there just feeding the other person or not.Now if you were to say get rid of no parties pvp room would turn into utter chaos the more geared people would dominate pvp doesn't really turn me off but at least try and give a chance to some of the less under geared people that's what parties are for. Edited February 8, 2011 by Seraphine
supream Posted February 8, 2011 Report Posted February 8, 2011 kind of hard to understand what u said at the end. if u want parties in pvp room and using under geared people as an excuse thats a bad reason. i dont see any under geared people laddering anyways. if u dont want parties well then good.
Kusanagi Posted February 8, 2011 Report Posted February 8, 2011 Oh man If this were to happen you would all bitch about me so fuckin much. Im a gang ruiner already but if u guys got no devo or buffs so much rage quiting. Nines you are a gang ruiner cuz you are a ganger yourself lol. Back to topic: 1- Its 100% pointless to ban people, Im sorry to tell you but then you can just use another character to ladder again. 2- The no party idea its just perfect, well gang will happen but its a little more of a fair situation, after all area spells and target magic will hit their allies :P People should be allowed to ladder when they want it's not "Oh you won last week now it's my turn" You have to earn your kills and if you do that then it doesn't really matter if that person wins 5 weeks in a row but that's not going to happen due to competitive nature of pvp room. The suggestion of a pvp room where only 2 people can enter has alot of down sides people will camp it so hard or rather you would have to be able to actually win and people can just set matches up and get free kills GameMasters can't watch pvp 24/7 and with only 2 people allowed in there it's really hard to tell if there just feeding the other person or not.Now if you were to say get rid of no parties pvp room would turn into utter chaos the more geared people would dominate pvp doesn't really turn me off but at least try and give a chance to some of the less under geared people that's what parties are for. Its rarely seen that under-geared people party up... its even more rarely that such party's win, and the gang culture has grown way too bad, Now I see people who flame over them not being able to gang back and other things worse... besides have anybody noticed its always the same people?, I dont see any new fighting potential rising... its always the very same people who gang.
Chae Rin Posted February 8, 2011 Report Posted February 8, 2011 "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" Then ask that same party you're helping that week to help you ladder the next week . :p There will always always always be gangs in ladder it's just its very nature. Even without parties, it will just be funnier then with all the friendly fire mishaps. :p
Angels&Demons Posted February 8, 2011 Author Report Posted February 8, 2011 That's why PvP isn't always so appealing, coz it's just about gang. I'd hate to bring up names, but when I killed Jet. 3 times in a row, a whole trans gang came into the PvP room, that's what PvP in this server is reduced to.. GANGING. If you've got a better pool of people, then you'd most definitely win gang vs gang. And it's just not about people laddering over and over again, most often champs win the ladder coz of speed asura, but how many times have you seen a player playing from an Asian country win ladder? Maybe 1 or 2? Coz our average ping is always above 150, so playing against those 30 or less ping is just plain suicide. They're just making you their test dummy. I know people will start pointing out that this is an Asian server and all that bullshit, but look at it at our perspective as well. You guys don't have any problems, coz hey, you don't lag, you can win ladder, you can participate in annihilation and gvg, you can woe w/o having to wake up early on a Sunday morning. So why not take everything else right?
Chae Rin Posted February 8, 2011 Report Posted February 8, 2011 I see your point and I agree with the ganging part but thats not true 100% of the time , last time I laddered I didn't get first but it was pretty neck&neck throughout that week. And during that time, my gang most of the time consisted of only me and a pally and occasionally one or two more people just nice enough to help out. This was compared to HerLove, my opponent that week, who had the potential of an entire guild to help in his hands. If I was able to maintain a lead for more than half the week with just a pally then I'm sure others can too. And win. :) I'd like to also note that prior to that week I didn't know HerLove that well but when ladder started in spirit of competition we didn't fight each other but instead fought everyone else and after it all we had a mutual respect towards one another. I feel like ladder weeks such as those are funner because you don't gang as much and you make tons of new friends. :o
Halion Posted February 10, 2011 Report Posted February 10, 2011 yeah thats what happened with me and radix until certain point..
Kayleigh Posted February 11, 2011 Report Posted February 11, 2011 (edited) That's why PvP isn't always so appealing, coz it's just about gang. I'd hate to bring up names, but when I killed Jet. 3 times in a row, a whole trans gang came into the PvP room, that's what PvP in this server is reduced to.. GANGING. If you've got a better pool of people, then you'd most definitely win gang vs gang. And it's just not about people laddering over and over again, most often champs win the ladder coz of speed asura, but how many times have you seen a player playing from an Asian country win ladder? Maybe 1 or 2? Coz our average ping is always above 150, so playing against those 30 or less ping is just plain suicide. They're just making you their test dummy. I know people will start pointing out that this is an Asian server and all that bullshit, but look at it at our perspective as well. You guys don't have any problems, coz hey, you don't lag, you can win ladder, you can participate in annihilation and gvg, you can woe w/o having to wake up early on a Sunday morning. So why not take everything else right? Just to make something clear. I have 150 ping on average. I do lag while pvping. I dont live in an Asian country tho (Europe here). You might say now 150 isnt as bad. But my internet connection is hella fast and the server still lags for me. I simply got acustom to it and Im pvping with it. Also, I work fulltime in the day and WoE/GvG are at night for me. You cant expect the server to change cause your ping is high and you cant pvp with it properly. This isnt an official server either. I find the GM team already does a lot to satisfy our wants and needs. And to the ganging part: You actually did bring up names ("I'd hate to bring up names"). And I disagree strongly. Ganging is the only thing that actually brings excitement to pvp these days. Doesnt everyone just sit around and talk? Or at least 90% do that. On the other hand, a gang thats too big is no fun anymore, thats true. Well then wait up a little and more will leave, then you can make another try. To the main suggestion: Its everyones own will to ladder. Just because someone else is planning to, doesnt mean you cant. As many already said, if someone else is laddering again just try to compete with them or make friends. You cant prohibit them laddering. -1 Edited February 11, 2011 by Kayleigh
Veracity Posted March 3, 2011 Report Posted March 3, 2011 We're not going to restrict people from participating in the ladder because they've won previous weeks. Also, having a PvP room where only 2 players are allowed in makes no sense at all. Yes, PvP ladder ideally wouldn't involve gangs and it's a cheap way to win it, but having a room where only 2 players could enter would be disastrous. Think about it. The most reasonable alternative would be to not allow parties in PvP room, although that will not stop gangs from happening it may mitigate it to some extent. So no to both of the original suggestions, but we are most likely going to make it so parties will be disabled in the PvP room. - Accepted -
