nines Posted January 28, 2011 Report Posted January 28, 2011 Alright. A lot of people have wanted 3rd classes and I want third classes also since I've never used them before. I've seen videos of low rate / medium rate servers with third classes and they look amazing and they do seem really over powered, and a lot of people have said they are over powered and that they would ruin the server. But our server is a little different in the pvp style and the stat style and setup so everyone who's saying it would just be a mess and so on and so forth are going off just by seeing not actually noticing. So what im suggesting is for a Forsaken Renewal Test Server to be set up. Genesis could choose active pvpers or players to test out the server. He could move the Item_Db over same all that, also give players them commands for job level up, base level up, change jobs, to make testing a lot quicker and simpler. If it does appear to be over powered. Well at least now we know so we can move on and make the best of what we got. If it doesn't we can begin a moving process if voted so by the players and the GM's. It would be really hard to move all the gear since the source can't be moved properly. Characters might be able to be moved but gear might be lost so it would be require people to gather all the gear they have screen shot it, in the inventory and write it down for GMs to begin moving gear. It would take a lot of time but it could be done while keeping the regular server up. I know theres gonna be a lot of yay or nays on this but. If we really want to grow, third classes does attract most players and we would have new towns new mobs and could move the server in an even further direction story arcs.
kuoch Posted January 28, 2011 Report Posted January 28, 2011 Even if we did have a test server. It'll take forever to make it a little tad balance since 3rd job is so over-powered in every way. Just the time and work he would have to put into it would already be a hassle. I mean, look at all the other high rate servers with 3rd job. Huge hassle.
Masahiro Posted January 28, 2011 Report Posted January 28, 2011 I'm for it, but I agree wit kuoch..this is up 2 gen and his own affairs, its a v. Large burden to tackle..and I'm prettu sure he doesn't hve the time. Manpower and resources to tackle such a project. But ya, I reserve my spot on the pvp test team all the same. (Should this somehow become reality)
Shadi Posted January 28, 2011 Report Posted January 28, 2011 This would be a huge amount of work for something only a part of the server wants, Most of the ones that don't want it have seen the effects of third jobs already and apparently disliked it. So did I. I disagree with this suggestion due to the following reasons : 1: It will be a lot of work and take a huge amount of time. This time could be invested differently and in my opinion better. 2: The test server would have to be hosted if other players were to test on it. If it were to be hosted on the same host as our main server it would increase (the chance of) lag on our main server. Which is a big - . 3: Personally I do not think the third jobs are attracting more people. Since every single server is changing to them, I think the servers that remain without the third classes will be more wanted. 4:I just completely dislike the third jobs as they pretty much ruined the RO experience for me when I played them.
Veracity Posted January 28, 2011 Report Posted January 28, 2011 I completely disagree that third classes aren't attracting new players. If you look at some of the biggest private servers, they have third classes. That's what is in demand now. However, I personally think these classes only really work on low/midrate servers and would be very, very problematic on a HR server like ours.
Kittie Posted January 28, 2011 Report Posted January 28, 2011 I think there's definitely a learning curve involved with a player who wishes to switch from a trans class server to a third-class server. There are new skills and the renewal mechanics to get used to. I agree with the suggestion, but honestly speaking, I'm not very moved or motivated to try the third classes. I don't spend a significant amount of time playing Ragnarok Online. I don't like hunting for gears, so I never farmed or hunted for anything here. I don't like leveling new characters. I don't like trying new builds. So honestly, I'm more like, "Gee, let's do some PVP for a little bit" and log off. I don't really have the chance to become bored with ForsakenRO, so I'm really okay with staying as a server without third classes. The idea of a test server is a good one as it will really let key players give an input of whats balanced and what is overpowered so we can have a solid foundation of where to begin with a potential transition. With this in mind, I wouldn't expect to just see an official third class update in like two to four months as I feel like this is a really sensitive matter in which it should not be rushed by any means. I'm not saying the team would be slow at rolling something like this out, but the testing players should really and really play with third classes for a longer duration to accurately measure their comfort or discomfort involved with the introduction. This mix of players should include people who want to see third classes, people who are extremely against it, people who have never played third classes, and people who have played third classes on a another server so they have kind of a control group in which to compare against. ---- And honestly speaking, if the current equipment that players own cannot be moved over to a renewal switch, I would be extremely against it. I donated for everything on my characters and I mean everything. Even if I hunted for everything, I wouldn't want to spend more time re-acquiring equipment, as I'd rather devote my time to getting used to new battle mechanics and new skills.
Masahiro Posted January 28, 2011 Report Posted January 28, 2011 lol kat, but yeah shes right with some of the things shes saying also Shadi, um 3rd classes are very attractive and its not like you cannot still play the other classes if you wished however third classes are a tricky thing to balance on rates such as ours but they are very intriguing and exciting as a concept to play and experiment with. the test server would cause lag potentially but we already have one i believe that Genesis uses to test his updates etc before releasing it mainstream. this test server would not be open to the general community and as such only few players (in groups/choices like what kat mentioned above) would participate in it. it will NOT come tomorrow or even the days to follow, but i think what 9s is trying to say is, he'd like to see a movement for this this is very debatable but it is entirely up to Genesis and the forsaken ro staff by short extension
L2Aim Posted January 28, 2011 Report Posted January 28, 2011 41 levels difference between transcendent (what we have now) and the 3rd classes on a regular rated server. The max level went up to 150 instead of the old 99, that's a difference already that would be hard to convert. There are new skills that are based off joblevel, on a HR such as this one, that can be devastating for gameplay. Testing this with a few people will be fairly useless. Okay, it's alright for PvP action, but consider the same for WoE, GvG and other guild/team related events, you'll figure out that it's hard to balance, heck, we're still trying to make the current classes work the way that would provide the most balance in game play. However, the idea of a test server itself to test possible new features can be a good thing, but to aim at 3rd classes straight away and go with renewal isn't an option as far as I can see. Plus, yes the Development team has their own test server(s), but it's running on our own computers and will only be active when we test ourselves. So far, I think Katherine tackled the issue straight away and also clarified why the server is the way it is and most likely (for the distant future of roughly a year) will be like we know it now.
nines Posted January 28, 2011 Author Report Posted January 28, 2011 Most of you wouldn't even understand all the hassle put in the process if I didn't explain it all >>. But I did that for a reason to see some educated opinions. Shadi How can you say that 3rd classes isn't an attractor and then say most of the other servers are moving to third classes. I think there doing that for a reason. And the ruining of classes is why I suggested a balancing on a test server not the real one. Veracity Didn't really give a good opinion x.x. Except for proving a point that all the biggest servers do indeed have 3rd classes and combine with my respone to Shadi kinda leans more into a yes. Kitty Kat Ya I know o.o. As for the item moving, its basically just a hacking recovery in a sense I had screen shots of my items and etc when I got hacked two years ago and I got all of my stuff back aside from tokens cause I didn't have them ssed. It would be possible to move all your gear, just like I said though it would take time and so forth. Raph Yah I know :P
Kittie Posted January 29, 2011 Report Posted January 29, 2011 Kitty Kat Ya I know o.o. As for the item moving, its basically just a hacking recovery in a sense I had screen shots of my items and etc when I got hacked two years ago and I got all of my stuff back aside from tokens cause I didn't have them ssed. It would be possible to move all your gear, just like I said though it would take time and so forth. Yes, I understood that you explained a completely feasible method of transitioning equipment, but I'm saying if the staff wasn't fully supportive of this method and wouldn't go along with it, then I would be against the transition.
Guest lolensue Posted January 29, 2011 Report Posted January 29, 2011 imbalances of third jobs are because of their skills, if we got someone to edit their skills or nerf some of it it would be good and 3rd classes would be somewhat implemented but i think we dont have these. i see other servers with 3rd job skills that are changed and blocked. most people are attracted to 3rd jobs because of the new look. imo, some of the 3rd job sprites look cool and some are awful. i have played with a server before, when they implemented the renewal they have to wipe out all of our items, but there was a solution for that and was just kept because the gms of the other server was tired of doing. it was by "screenshot" method, screenshot every item he got. but i see this is "cheatable".
nines Posted January 29, 2011 Author Report Posted January 29, 2011 Ok.....How about an opinion on the test server instead of what we all have established over 4000 times.
L2Aim Posted January 29, 2011 Report Posted January 29, 2011 A LR server has been on the list for a long time, but we haven't reached 500+ players yet(on average, not during WoE hours), that possible future LR server could bring 3rd classes to the fRO community. It would solve most of the to-balance issues, yet it requires a clean start from everyone, at that point everyone has a choice whether to go LR and play 3rd classes the way it's intended or stick to what we have and keep what you've got. Oh well, just speculating..
Masahiro Posted January 29, 2011 Report Posted January 29, 2011 41 levels difference between transcendent (what we have now) and the 3rd classes on a regular rated server. The max level went up to 150 instead of the old 99, that's a difference already that would be hard to convert. There are new skills that are based off joblevel, on a HR such as this one, that can be devastating for gameplay. Testing this with a few people will be fairly useless. Okay, it's alright for PvP action, but consider the same for WoE, GvG and other guild/team related events, you'll figure out that it's hard to balance, heck, we're still trying to make the current classes work the way that would provide the most balance in game play. However, the idea of a test server itself to test possible new features can be a good thing, but to aim at 3rd classes straight away and go with renewal isn't an option as far as I can see. Plus, yes the Development team has their own test server(s), but it's running on our own computers and will only be active when we test ourselves. So far, I think Katherine tackled the issue straight away and also clarified why the server is the way it is and most likely (for the distant future of roughly a year) will be like we know it now. yeah i agree with everything you say above, and @ personal test servers, cool. yes third classes would be devastating in Woe and GVG etc, we can see a lot of their skills with a GREAT potential for being over-powered. The warlocks and they, the mechanics aoe skills and effects etc, but idk i still see it has the potential to work out somehow, as it has been done in other servers. but anyways, whatever comes from this thread.. comes from it. it was by "screenshot" method, screenshot every item he got. but i see this is "cheatable". veri much so..glad someone mentioned this
zac Posted January 31, 2011 Report Posted January 31, 2011 Yeah i disagree. This is Forsaken RO's Style its either you like it or not.
Seraphine Posted February 22, 2011 Report Posted February 22, 2011 Making a test server wouldn't be a top priorty and would take time , when we do get a larger community this would be something usefull to have to test 3rd classes and make them more balanced if they are ever implemented.
Sorrow Posted February 22, 2011 Report Posted February 22, 2011 i personaly think the fear of the unknown just keep some people at bay of trying something new. Overall i loved the idea, i wanna see the damage Third jobs would do with our customs and leveling xD i can't resist fresh news, i like to evolve and te feeling of going into new standards & what not so yeah, the 3rd jobs are a huge attractive, i waited like a child awaits for christmas to have news and information of each new class xD And the Third classes offer so many new options its like a walk in the amuzement park xD So that's my yay for the idea over all. The only thing that makes me worry about it is...more time used to do it, is less time for updates to keep the fresh news coming into the main server. And also the resources to make it happen. We'd need a good scripter contantly working on it to change data on any skills considered overpowered to balance all out as it goes... It's a lot of work! Maybe we should all start learning some scripting x3
Yeung Posted February 24, 2011 Report Posted February 24, 2011 Editing 3rd job skills to be fair on a high rate server is hard, but not impossible. I played a server recently that did a damn good job with it and their max level was 255/120. But they were literally changing things CONSTANTLY throughout the entire year that they had implemented them. It's THAT much of a hassle. I'd love to see it, but it takes an extreme amount of work dawg. :'<
Angels&Demons Posted February 24, 2011 Report Posted February 24, 2011 (edited) I think it would be "better" if Gen assigned this task to certain people. The job of these certain people is to find a high-rate server with 3rd classes. Stat and items aside, these test group can at least have an idea whether the 3rd jobs being implemented in fRO would be plausible. So I think it wouldn't be such an impossibility if it were implemented in fRO. Edited February 24, 2011 by Veracity Mentioning/advertising other servers is against the rules.
Veracity Posted February 24, 2011 Report Posted February 24, 2011 Hi, just wanted to remind everyone advertising other servers (even indirectly, by mentioning them) is against the rules. If you want to talk about another server in a topic such as this you can just say "another RO server I played on before" or something along those lines, do not mention the server in specific.
Angels&Demons Posted February 25, 2011 Report Posted February 25, 2011 Sorry about that. Wasn't my intention.
jorgesilvera Posted March 16, 2011 Report Posted March 16, 2011 (edited) Hello, I agree, why? The Server need a non-stop upgrades in order to survive, complementing the 3rd classes effects and skills with custom items won't stand forever. imagine that would be relased 4thclasses what would be happen to the server? would be the same population ass ever? the server will lose adversiment, son or late Forsaken Ragnarok Online would have to implement the change to 3rd, realise the test in order to see what happen. I donn't wanna see Forsaken Ragnaork Online in the 2014-2017 closing for insuficient people playing. And even if one of the problem is the economical and manwill factors, inversiment have to be done in order to survive too. Thanks. Edited March 16, 2011 by jorgesilvera
supream Posted March 16, 2011 Report Posted March 16, 2011 4th class wont happen for another decade or so.
SlingerzDeluxez Posted March 18, 2011 Report Posted March 18, 2011 (edited) Im in the middle with third classes. If they add third classes, that would make classes like ninja and GS obsolete. But they would attract more people, so I dont know which way to go yet. Ive played all the classes, and some are horrible, like the wanderer, mechanic, and alchemist third class. Others are completely overpowered like Guillotine Cross, Professor third class, warlock, and Rune Knight. I would donate my time if you wanted to go through with the third classes and making them even, but I dont have any experience whatsoever. I just thought that I would put my word in. Edited March 22, 2011 by SlingerzDeluxez
Seraphine Posted May 14, 2011 Report Posted May 14, 2011 I don't believe this will happen for a vey long time due to the amount of work it entails.
