Sp Increase

[Xtopher]

First of all, I've tried damn near every Stalker build imaginable. Strength based Stalkers used to be effective until the addition of a one hand bow. There are no effective strength based Stalker builds anymore because the benefits of the bow greatly outweigh any strength based build benefits. Shield Chain works off of your attack and card benefits. Dex + Soaring bird has a much higher attack bonus than the Stalker dagger + Strength. Add in the fact that the bow gives more damage to demi humans, 20% more hp 15% reductions, why would anyone go strength?

The suggestion topic you mentioned about shield chain was about boosting the damage bonus given by Friggs. No suggestion to make shield chain elemental has ever been accepted and I'm fairly sure it will stay neutral for ever. If you wear a GR armor and Usakoring + fshield then Shield Chain will do around 2k per hit tops. This is no way comparable to the LK's ability to spam 4-7k per hit elemental damage. Sure, Stalkers can strip... but fcp tickets are easily available and almost everyone has an alt account or a friend to fcp them. When fcp brings your spiral damage to 2k per hit then we can maybe make a direct comparison to the two skills.

The Intimidate skill you're mentioning is not effective on this server at all. On this server it's called "Snatch". What does anyone do the moment you Snatch them and they get teleported? They @warp right back to where they were. The skill is at best an annoyance in pvp, not an effective way to combat an enemy. Furthermore, you can't snatch people in WoE, GvG, PvP arenas. Close Confine is also very ineffective on this server because the thief branch can backslide out of it, Champs can snap... and any class with a knock back skill (Jupitel Thunder, Smite, Bowling bash, Magnum Break) can break Close Confine.

My point in all of this is that sure a Stalker can stun-lock you with Shield Chain but overall it is not comparable to the LK's ability to stun-lock and kill because LK's can knock you out of pnuema and their stun-lock skill is elemental with a high damage output.

Now, on to Acid Demonstration:

You don't even need FCP to block this skill. RSX/GR + 2X Rays + usakoring fshield and Acid Demonstration will never even reach 1k damage per hit. Creators bolt skills are also limited as most of them are using a weapon that gives them the level 3 bolt. They are not an effective way of killing people and are at best an annoyance. Their damage output is in no way comparable to a LK spitting out 4-7k per hit spirals and capable of 22k x2 each hit with bowling bash.

I don't believe I ever mentioned anything about cloaking cards... that's you're choice.

I think you're focused too much on what classes were in the past (mentioning 2-2 and how things were before Charge Attack was implemented). You need to let go of that and look at how to keep balance now.

As for Mages: The Prof weapon needed Stave crasher. It's a fair and necessary attribute in order to give Professors some hope in pvp. When your entire offense is blocked by 1 card + fcp then you have the right to compare your class to the Mages... until then I don't see any necessary comparison nor any similar buff necessary for LK's.

You consider the fact that BB knocks people back a disadvantage. I would argue that it's more of an advantage overall. You get to push people out of pnuema and my favorite aspect of it is that you can knock those pesky Sonic Blow Assassins off of you and get down to spamming Spiral.

You don't need to wear maya purple + f.soldier. If someone is using puppetring and cloaking then use box of sunlight + f.soldier. You'll still have 3 card slots open for kiels making your spamming ability pretty hefty.

LK's can knock people out of cloaking pretty easily. Is slapping on a horong card that difficult? And you can also Magnum Break, which is much easier than using sightless mind on a Stalker, or Unchained Serenade on a Clown. The Stalker must be in Hide to use the skill (which greatly lowers movement speed) and the Clown goes into a song stance when using US so they can't start spamming Vulcan for a second. LK's can just run up, Magnum, spam spiral all very quickly.

There's no argument from me that LK's are OP. They aren't. They're balanced and fine as they are. They don't need further buffing or any sort of nerfing either. An sp boost would only give them the ability to hoard tons of yggs while having a huge HP modifier to tank.

[Masahiro]

First of all, I've tried damn near every Stalker build imaginable. Strength based Stalkers used to be effective until the addition of a one hand bow. There are no effective strength based Stalker builds anymore because the benefits of the bow greatly outweigh any strength based build benefits. Shield Chain works off of your attack and card benefits. Dex + Soaring bird has a much higher attack bonus than the Stalker dagger + Strength. Add in the fact that the bow gives more damage to demi humans, 20% more hp 15% reductions, why would anyone go strength?

The suggestion topic you mentioned about shield chain was about boosting the damage bonus given by Friggs. No suggestion to make shield chain elemental has ever been accepted and I'm fairly sure it will stay neutral for ever. If you wear a GR armor and Usakoring + fshield then Shield Chain will do around 2k per hit tops. This is no way comparable to the LK's ability to spam 4-7k per hit elemental damage. Sure, Stalkers can strip... but fcp tickets are easily available and almost everyone has an alt account or a friend to fcp them. When fcp brings your spiral damage to 2k per hit then we can maybe make a direct comparison to the two skills.

The Intimidate skill you're mentioning is not effective on this server at all. On this server it's called "Snatch". What does anyone do the moment you Snatch them and they get teleported? They @warp right back to where they were. The skill is at best an annoyance in pvp, not an effective way to combat an enemy. Furthermore, you can't snatch people in WoE, GvG, PvP arenas. Close Confine is also very ineffective on this server because the thief branch can backslide out of it, Champs can snap... and any class with a knock back skill (Jupitel Thunder, Smite, Bowling bash, Magnum Break) can break Close Confine.

My point in all of this is that sure a Stalker can stun-lock you with Shield Chain but overall it is not comparable to the LK's ability to stun-lock and kill because LK's can knock you out of pnuema and their stun-lock skill is elemental with a high damage output.

Now, on to Acid Demonstration:

You don't even need FCP to block this skill. RSX/GR + 2X Rays + usakoring fshield and Acid Demonstration will never even reach 1k damage per hit. Creators bolt skills are also limited as most of them are using a weapon that gives them the level 3 bolt. They are not an effective way of killing people and are at best an annoyance. Their damage output is in no way comparable to a LK spitting out 4-7k per hit spirals and capable of 22k x2 each hit with bowling bash.

I don't believe I ever mentioned anything about cloaking cards... that's you're choice.

I think you're focused too much on what classes were in the past (mentioning 2-2 and how things were before Charge Attack was implemented). You need to let go of that and look at how to keep balance now.

As for Mages: The Prof weapon needed Stave crasher. It's a fair and necessary attribute in order to give Professors some hope in pvp. When your entire offense is blocked by 1 card + fcp then you have the right to compare your class to the Mages... until then I don't see any necessary comparison nor any similar buff necessary for LK's.

You consider the fact that BB knocks people back a disadvantage. I would argue that it's more of an advantage overall. You get to push people out of pnuema and my favorite aspect of it is that you can knock those pesky Sonic Blow Assassins off of you and get down to spamming Spiral.

You don't need to wear maya purple + f.soldier. If someone is using puppetring and cloaking then use box of sunlight + f.soldier. You'll still have 3 card slots open for kiels making your spamming ability pretty hefty.

LK's can knock people out of cloaking pretty easily. Is slapping on a horong card that difficult? And you can also Magnum Break, which is much easier than using sightless mind on a Stalker, or Unchained Serenade on a Clown. The Stalker must be in Hide to use the skill (which greatly lowers movement speed) and the Clown goes into a song stance when using US so they can't start spamming Vulcan for a second. LK's can just run up, Magnum, spam spiral all very quickly.

There's no argument from me that LK's are OP. They aren't. They're balanced and fine as they are. They don't need further buffing or any sort of nerfing either. An sp boost would only give them the ability to hoard tons of yggs while having a huge HP modifier to tank.

overviewing most of this, (1) i believe i said i was mistaken about the shield chain elemental it was a mis-read on my part

but what im not mistaken about is its effectiveness:, a stalker with immat arrow and shield chain is a deadly combo (while we did discuss this in-game, ill mention it here again)

if the stalker notices you are not wearing Gr he can dish out 8k per hit shield chains, if his damage goes down by a large margin he can safely assume you've put on Gr and will proceed to DS you with his immat arrow and do bonus damage (even if it is NOT as strong as snipers, that doesnt mean its a pea shooter) (why does a stalker have to outdamage an LK here ANYWAYS to prove a point? stalkers already Tank 2ce as good as an Lk so now to prove a point they must do equivalent if not better damage?...which fyi they still do)

magnum break won't uncloak a stalker in chase walk, and also while it does uncloak, it is a weak chance and adding little flee means you probably wont. (the stalker with link runs like 2x faster than uncloaked ANYWAYS and the bonus tidbit of a stalker link is that they cannot be dispelled, if you say someone can slave fcp themselves, someone can sure as well slave link a stalker..what does Lk link do? 1h quicken? haha nice.) not many things can effecitvely take a stalker out of chasewalk..combine that with backslide and resists and you have the ultimate annoyance and unkillable character..

clowns Can immeediately Av after using unchained as they switch a guitar..i know this from personal experience.

i just brought up the prof to add to the list of my points and did not intend to dwell on it.

acid demonstration still breaks stuff, and even if it didnt due to fcp similar items you mentioned, Sgws/fluffy, unsaok and other demi resists can nurf an Lk's spiral down to 1k a hit

its been done, and is not hard to do.

as for snatch i mentioned it purely as an option and yes i know it cant work in woe and gvg, but wht i also know is that bb does not push you back in woe and hence can be spammed. other things i know is that damage is also reduced in woe for particular classes, but i did not mention any of these because there was no need to.

there is no need to linger on stalkers as i was making a valid point with a brief comparison.

bb's knockback is a disadvantage because even if tht pesky sonic blower were attacking me id rather use spear thrust and get him away if BB were not knock back. (if it were not it'd b similar to a focus arrow from snipers, but BB is BB)

22k +2k double hit bbs rounded off to a single 25k 'hit' bb x2 = 50k if you get 2 bbs to hit before knockback..sure

it knocks off a load but because it pushed you back even if it surprised you, you can recover.

no1 gets cornered into a wall unless they were unlucky, especially with the latest type of BB where it knocks you back in the direction you were walking.

i think i said the stunlock on spiral is fine, but its range means that only if you are on the MAX distance spiral can hit you will you be unable to close range melle an Lk as he is spiralling you, anywhere else within the spiral and you can still touch him. stunlock ftw right? its part of the skill by design not by choice

shield chain was just a single example, but stalkers are versatile so if shield chain does not work they can mix up their skills and builds, Lks are stuck with what they have for life (no complaining, but yeah).

the box of sunlight and f.soldier is right, so? theres millions of other combinations for any class against anything, what we're talking about here is the basic ability, i have a sight clip and you don't that means i can reveal you..but that does not mean you'll never get a sight clip in your life. same goes for thana, Spiral is always incant effect, do what you'd do to reduce that damage and there you have it, insta anti spiral. (not saying its going to save you forever, because BB works with thana, but again thats just something)

im not focused on the past i said that because i thought you were.

lastly if spiral was neutral then we would never be having this conversation, and i personally would simply just spiral until my damage drops then endow BB anyways.

Sp boost is not making LKs OP, no1 said they were currently and honestly speaking if i wanted to boost my Sp anywyas i would just bless myself and get double my current Sp and blessing lasts forever..(and would inc my attack)

so i could care less about that. what i care about is the fact that adding 100-200 more sp to LKs makes it OP for certain people...why is that?

we';re still gona run out..just not AS fast

a sinx with seeds survives for a longer time than Lks and does not really need to use Skills that waste Sp.while i am admitting it is my own personal choice NOt to use seeds on LKs, i say it is difficult because using seeds and spamming the way i do, is an INCREDIBLY difficult thing, just to spam a single ygg to upkeep my Sp is relatively quick because My sp runs veri quickly...why must i hand cramp even more spamming Spiral AND bb AND seeds? all at the same time?..my choice

on a sinx i can just use Q3 and Nc and just scroll casually as my auto attack hits you..its difficult with a more involving class like Lk.

Edited January 7, 2011 by Masahiro

[Nataly]

Disagree :)

[zac]

@Nataly You disagree ? how about elaborating. Its annoying when people just post "Disagree" etc. Why not explain why. Do you know what you are disagreeing to ?

As Gen(2011) stated, "bandwagon", that's what it appears to be what you guys do a lot.

[Masahiro]

lol wow at least you guys read all of that..sorry for Chris' and my longwinded debate.

my posts are irrelevant stick to the topic at hand, that is the SP increase. k thnx bai

[jorgesilvera]

What the heck is with you guy that agree with the suggetion, saying that "Lord Knight will be balanced with this"

Pople always saying "Lord knight can hold 200+ ygg and have a lot of HP" "Thay spam is fine and have stun lock""they dont need more damage"

Before agreeing with this you have to know that there is no right to Lord Knight to have the sp advanage. why

The Spam of Spiral Piece is the thing that consume the YGG more that the battle damage taken by the Lord Knight

Isame it is a Insult (yeah that is the word) to the other classes beacuse the SP ratio is affected by class but the FBH intervent. and poeople have to tanks the bonus given by The Forsaken King Cloak that allow (15%) to cast the spells.

Accepting this suggetion is a promotion to the "OP" "fast Spam" of the Spiral Piece" becuse will reduce the consuption of ygg and then the Lord Knight Will be a truly Panzer (Tank).

Even that that make the Lord Knight more "out of balance" that the Lord Knight Spiral Piece suggestion.

[supream]

as i can see i made this post in my thoughts of lks not getting a good enough compensation of losing the other benefits from the what the weapon previously had. currently i have 290 sp with my build. i just wanted somthing around 370 sp, like a 150 flat increase on sp with fbh on. thats it. or at least sp consumption reduction on it, but it makes perfect since that adding 150 sp or some sp reductions would be over powered then having the coma back on the weapon or giving spiral another boost so i can do 10k on shields again. considering you people say that lks have "tons of hp", yggin due to sp is just as the same as having puny hp. well not considering we wont die from asura or something that dose a ton of damage at once. if u ever looked at it like if you were dueling with a white smith. their hp is terrible, so if u were fighitng a sin you would be spamming yggs, but for a lk sp is the problem. instead of spamming for hp ur spamming for sp, making it almost the same. im not asking for 700 sp on fbh or 60% sp reduction. all i want is like a 150 flat boost with fbh on, a 20-25% sp reduction or something with a combination.

[Masahiro]

What the heck is with you guy that agree with the suggetion, saying that "Lord Knight will be balanced with this"

in me agreeing to this i never said Lord knights would become more balanced, i said they would not become OP

my point of view is im fine with Lk as it is, i personally don't need the extra Sp as i have always and will always deal with whatever is on the table.

but from an objective point of view adding more sp will not make an Lk some overpowered powerhouse especially since blessing an LK currently will give him More sp than what Mike is asking for anywyas..and blessing lasts long, so we can just bless our characters and get more sp and more damage..anyway.

currently i have 290 sp with my build. i just wanted somthing around 370 sp, like a 150 flat increase on sp with fbh on. thats it. or at least sp consumption reduction on it,

considering you people say that lks have "tons of hp", yggin due to sp is just as the same as having puny hp. well not considering we wont die from asura or something that dose a ton of damage at once. if u ever looked at it like if you were dueling with a white smith. their hp is terrible, so if u were fighitng a sin you would be spamming yggs, but for a lk sp is the problem. instead of spamming for hp ur spamming for sp, making it almost the same. im not asking for 700 sp on fbh or 60% sp reduction. all i want is like a 150 flat boost with fbh on, a 20-25% sp reduction or something with a combination.

exactly, this is not an unreasonable request 100-150 sp will not change much it will just allow Lks to NOT have to run through all of their yggs on a single opponent (they will still run through most)... if i had to put this in terms of black ops, its like putting on extended mags on your character so you just may get that 2nd or 3rd kill without getting shot down after the first opponent

Edited January 10, 2011 by Masahiro

[zac]

+1 why not. 100 sp increase after fbh x 2 . not that much. :/

These small adjustments people appreciate. It doesnt have to be anything great but a little incentive.

[Veracity]

We will add another small additional SP increase on the LK halberd weapon.

- Accepted -