Enlarge Weight Limit For Gypsies

[Kittie]

I noticed Gypsies were left out (and Clowns). As a class not relying on strength, they should get an increase in ygg capacity as well.

[Ethereal]

I highly agree with this. I don't see why they didn't get it, considering as how other classes (hunter, rogue, mage branch) got it. Although I'm extremely grateful that other classes got it and it has been very helpful as well, but it is kind of disappointing to see one of my favourite classes not have it. Edited December 24, 2009 by Ethereal

[Cirrus]

I-I... agree!

[Sensation]

The reason why they don't get the skill either, is because their health is a lot higher than the mage class and they don't use a weapon that takes up 2 slots and are able to use their shield by default.

A bow Stalker or a Sniper doesn't have that advantage.

[» Pat]

I'd be satisfied with level 5 as well. :<

[Kittie]

1. Forsaken Magic Dagger effect changed to: Max HP + 10%, Max MATK + 25%, Int + 10, Allows use of Enlarge Weight Limit level 10.

3. Forsaken Wizard Staff effect changed to: Str + 30, Max MATK + 20%, Int + 20, Allows use of Enlarge Weight Limit level 10.

6. Forsaken Professor Staff effect changed to: Str + 30, Int + 30, Max MATK + 20%, Allows use of Enlarge Weight Limit level 10.

Idk. It seems like the weapons that could be held with a Usakoring F shield also get an increased weight capacity effect. And the mage class's Tao effect is 60%, which is higher than the archer class's 50%.

[» Pat]

Idk. It seems like the weapons that could be held with a Usakoring F shield also get an increased weight capacity effect. And the mage class's Tao effect is 60%, which is higher than the archer class's 50%.

I FEEL THE URGE TO STATE THAT I FIND THIS TO BE A WONDERFUL POINT AND I ABSOLUTELY AGREE ON WHAT HAS BEEN SAID.

was dis ok dawlin?? ^_^

[Sensation]

I felt the urge to reduce the unnecessary usage of a huge font.

Anyway, comparing a mage class that already had lower health, stalkers who are rendered fairly useless with FCP + GTB versus a ranged class who has perfect skills to hit & run and kill people, tarot piercing certain things that other skills cannot, AV/VA, cloaking (card, but still), slow grace(with or without soul link) and probably more.

Clowns or Gypsies aren't that underpowered, they're just used to a lesser extend and thus seem weak, but the few people who do put effort in it(consistently), were able to make fights challenging for their opponents.

The suggestion is not yet rejected, yet will be considered, merely stating why it isn't completely necessary to apply the change.

[» Pat]

She forced me... q__q;

[Kittie]

I wouldn't feel that let down if they never got this added bonus that other classes benefited from through the Christmas update, but I just feel that no matter if you're a mage class or an archer class, you'll still need more than 100 yggs to fend off asura spamming champs since you'll need to ygg after each asura if you have less than 400k HP. Just my two cents.

[Nyanko]

Why not give every class a weight limit boost.

With all sarcasm put aside, no. [:

[Kittie]

Why not give every class a weight limit boost.

With all sarcasm put aside, no. [:

If I was suggesting every class get a weight limit boost, I would have made that the suggestion wouldn't I? Suggesting one class that unfortunately was left out is a big difference than suggesting all classes. Read closely next time, hm?

[Nyanko]

Sarcasm

^ Srsly don't get butthurt.

What's wrong with having str on your characters? I'm honestly really against the + weight update.

[Exhibition]

How can you be against the weight increase skill being added to stalker/mage/sniper class elite weapons? It's only a fraction of what can be done to bring some actual balance among all classes. All STR based classes, classes with the ability to get the 'Increase Weight Capacity' skill on their own, and Peco Riding classes have a rather large advantage over all other classes. Our PvP is heavily dependent on who carries the most Yggdrasil Berries or who can use them the fastest. Naturally having to add STR into your stats creates a clear advantage as you not only increase your damage output, but you also increase how many Yggdrasil Berries you can bring into PvP. By enabling them to carry a few dozen more Berries, it won't make the large enough difference to be heavily against it. They have to be using the weapon in the first place, which not all people have/can afford, and switching weapons will mean having to have another elite weapon in order to preserve the weight increase. And lets be honest, GTB still completely annihilates any damage that a mage class could possibly do. Sure they could get flee and perfect dodge to prevent them from receiving damage/reducing damage, but how will they kill anyone in return? It's only fair to give them a chance to live a few measly more moments as the opponent laughs at you with FCP+GTB. Now on to stalkers, they aren't as diverse as you'd think they could be, at least not in this server. Limiting them to no transcended-class skills (Why?) means they have a few, rather weak, STR based skills to choose from when selecting a skill to copy, if that's the route they wish to choose. If they were to choose a STR based build, the elite dagger would not do much, if anything, to help their damage output, negating the increased weight capacity. What's left after that, bow-required skills (ouch, no real damage reduction and damage isn't that great with no Improve Concentration) and Magic/Int-Based Skills (see mage discussion). If anything, increasing their weight capacity doesn't do enough to balance the classes.

[Cirrus]

As said in this thread, unfortunately Clown / Gypsy requires a lot of gear to be played on "equal" levels with the primary PvP classes.

I've been playing Clown & Gypsy a lot and in a PvP situation while sporting ~100+ STR, I have 2 extra weapons, 2 extra armors, 1 extra cloak, an extra shield, 20+ speed potions, and just around 125 berries. To fight optimally (note, on use of word) this is, well, simply not enough for a class that's more or less limited to one build (two, if you'll just be annoying and get flee/PD as support with Tarot/ and song/dance buffs. Sure, you can have more STR (and have lower HP or damage), have more DEX (and carry way less berries or less HP), or or, wait, give them a shot at the weight capacity.

It wouldn't be so bad, even Scholars now with high MATK have like 250k+ HP (on 1 Tao), Stalkers who opt to use the Magic Dagger for a BB build on a STR stat build would get ~66 more berries, on top of being able to carry ~200 already, and the 50% (supposedly) HP boost for them on Tao (on top of the 10% on the dagger too), Snipers tanking Asura on a bow, point being, we're in the experimenting phase so why not give it a chance too.

[Exhibition]

As said in this thread, unfortunately Clown / Gypsy requires a lot of gear to be played on "equal" levels with the primary PvP classes.

I've been playing Clown & Gypsy a lot and in a PvP situation while sporting ~100+ STR, I have 2 extra weapons, 2 extra armors, 1 extra cloak, an extra shield, 20+ speed potions, and just around 125 berries. To fight optimally (note, on use of word) this is, well, simply not enough for a class that's more or less limited to one build (two, if you'll just be annoying and get flee/PD as support with Tarot/ and song/dance buffs. Sure, you can have more STR (and have lower HP or damage), have more DEX (and carry way less berries or less HP), or or, wait, give them a shot at the weight capacity.

It wouldn't be so bad, even Scholars now with high MATK have like 250k+ HP (on 1 Tao), Stalkers who opt to use the Magic Dagger for a BB build on a STR stat build would get ~66 more berries, on top of being able to carry ~200 already, and the 50% (supposedly) HP boost for them on Tao (on top of the 10% on the dagger too), Snipers tanking Asura on a bow, point being, we're in the experimenting phase so why not give it a chance too.

I agree that Clowns & Gypsies should be given a weight capacity increase, but on everything else you said.. have you ever tried Bowling Bash on a stalker with a dagger on people using skolls? Your damage won't be that great. And tanking Asura Strike with a bow means you'll take 50k+ per Throw Spirit Sphere.

Edited December 25, 2009 by Exhibition

[Nyanko]

How can you be against the weight increase skill being added to stalker/mage/sniper class elite weapons? It's only a fraction of what can be done to bring some actual balance among all classes. All STR based classes, classes with the ability to get the 'Increase Weight Capacity' skill on their own, and Peco Riding classes have a rather large advantage over all other classes. Our PvP is heavily dependent on who carries the most Yggdrasil Berries or who can use them the fastest. Naturally having to add STR into your stats creates a clear advantage as you not only increase your damage output, but you also increase how many Yggdrasil Berries you can bring into PvP. By enabling them to carry a few dozen more Berries, it won't make the large enough difference to be heavily against it. They have to be using the weapon in the first place, which not all people have/can afford, and switching weapons will mean having to have another elite weapon in order to preserve the weight increase. And lets be honest, GTB still completely annihilates any damage that a mage class could possibly do. Sure they could get flee and perfect dodge to prevent them from receiving damage/reducing damage, but how will they kill anyone in return? It's only fair to give them a chance to live a few measly more moments as the opponent laughs at you with FCP+GTB. Now on to stalkers, they aren't as diverse as you'd think they could be, at least not in this server. Limiting them to no transcended-class skills (Why?) means they have a few, rather weak, STR based skills to choose from when selecting a skill to copy, if that's the route they wish to choose. If they were to choose a STR based build, the elite dagger would not do much, if anything, to help their damage output, negating the increased weight capacity. What's left after that, bow-required skills (ouch, no real damage reduction and damage isn't that great with no Improve Concentration) and Magic/Int-Based Skills (see mage discussion). If anything, increasing their weight capacity doesn't do enough to balance the classes.

Lets re-ask that question; why's other classes that are non-related to STR or have low weight also not having a weight boost?

It sounds like it's funding only ones character preference.

I could agree with it but I think there should be /several/ weight increases to all classes with low weight, to make it fair.

Gs, never had a problem with sniper but w/e, clown/gypsy, priest, I honestly had no problem with stalker weight wise but w/e, soul linkers, ninjas, prof/wiz, ect to list a few that come into mind.

[Cirrus]

^ Lol good point on the mages.

And on Exhibition's post, I was just stating possibilities that were presented by the updates. /ok

Clown & Gypsy still stand as one of the classes that could use even half the weight boost, like Pat said.

[Nyanko]

Well. First of all, players of clowns and gypsies have been making suggestions to help balance their class for longer than you've played this server. Claiming that this suggestion is only funding one character's preference in any way is false. The fact that multiple people here have agreed already discredits that.

Second of all.. did you even read the new updates? Out of the classes that you named, 4/10 had a weight increase with their updated Elite Weapons. We're asking for the addition of 2 more of the 10 you've listed. So...

It's time to agree. This thread is all about making things "fair," baby.

ETA: About weight increase for other classes : I (personally) don't find it necessary for priests (and it appears the developers don't, either). On high rates (especially this one) heal isn't even necessary when players far out damage it and with the availability of yggs. Most priests play entirely for support in PvP / WoE with buffs and offensive buffs. There's room to sacrifice int, even if you so desire to opt for a more int-friendly build to use Holy Light. Priests are blessed with skills that will make hits completely miss (both ranged and melee) and that will cut your damage received by 1/3. Any sort of priest that knows how to play correctly against even the highest damage output should be able to survive with a minimal amount of yggs. Ninjas, like priests, have skills that 100% evade both ranged and melee skills. A good ninja can't be touched by anything but magic, and in that case, put on one of your readily available GTBs. They're also presented with skills that have powerful attacks with either str, vit, or int. Even with low HP, they were dealt a pretty good hand (something that can't be said for mage classes that are completely screwed by GTB and FCP). As for soul linker, considering their int-based skills do not even work for PvP, why even consider a weight increase? They'd have to use scrolls or something else to have a build that would require minimal STR, which is something I've never seen and I doubt will ever happen. And also, like ninja and priest, they have evasive skills that even extend to dodging magical attacks. As for gunslingers, I don't know much about them, so I've got nothing to say about that.

How long exactly have I played this server in your opinion? I made this forum account way later than when I started.

Tl;drn.

If you want to compare this to the real game why is any classes having a weight boost? Wizards usually have the least weight but you want them to have higher because you PLAY that class.

All sarcasm put aside as before, don't just pick classes and say to some "oh they can't have any boost because of what they do on iRO/kRO."

Priest can be many things obviously people are too simple minded to see that. Hl priest, coma priest, pd priest, battle priest, and the most annoying: hybrid. You support yourself yes, but priests can fight on iRO and kRO, this server just neglects them because they find them nothing but puny support.

To your oh if they play good they should survive with a puny amount of yggs, yes they can but why are you complaining about Wizard then? Wizard can block attacks also, they can also hide themselves with a icewall OMG WHO KNEW?!

[No I don't play priest anymore, I play champ actually so heh, no "OMG U COMPAINZ ABOUT ME WANTING 2 CHANGE CHAR I PLAY BUT U DO 2."]

About your ninjas theory;

They have very low weight from what I seen, they CAN get touched fyi even when played good.

Your thoughts on "playing good" makes me think you can't, since you get butthurt about wizards after all, when they too can block many skills "when played right."

[Exhibition]

How long exactly have I played this server in your opinion? I made this forum account way later than when I started.

Tl;drn.

If you want to compare this to the real game why is any classes having a weight boost? Wizards usually have the least weight but you want them to have higher because you PLAY that class.

All sarcasm put aside as before, don't just pick classes and say to some "oh they can't have any boost because of what they do on iRO/kRO."

Priest can be many things obviously people are too simple minded to see that. Hl priest, coma priest, pd priest, battle priest, and the most annoying: hybrid. You support yourself yes, but priests can fight on iRO and kRO, this server just neglects them because they find them nothing but puny support.

To your oh if they play good they should survive with a puny amount of yggs, yes they can but why are you complaining about Wizard then? Wizard can block attacks also, they can also hide themselves with a icewall OMG WHO KNEW?!

[No I don't play priest anymore, I play champ actually so heh, no "OMG U COMPAINZ ABOUT ME WANTING 2 CHANGE CHAR I PLAY BUT U DO 2."]

About your ninjas theory;

They have very low weight from what I seen, they CAN get touched fyi even when played good.

Your thoughts on "playing good" makes me think you can't, since you get butthurt about wizards after all, when they too can block many skills "when played right."

Wizards have a decent advantage over other classes in iRO/kRO and thus have the lower weight capacity, as GTB is extremely rare and only another magic class (professor) can completely nullify what a wizard can do in a almost non-GTB environment. You honestly can't compare the survivability of a wizard to that of a priest just because of safety wall. What about long range attacks which bypass Safety Wall? Wizards don't have the luxury of being able to use Pneuma to then render an enemies' long range assault useless. Assumptio > Energy Coat, as being hit while having a Coat active means your SP constantly being drained, and as for Ice Wall goes, see previous comment on Long Range skills, as well as GTB rendering anything a Wizard can do useless, besides maybe a meager 5k-20k Stave, if that. Even if we were to allow wizards to carry upwards of 300 Yggdrasil Berries, what are they supposed to do in terms of offensive? They can't use coma (Lord of Death Card Coma Chance is a joke), and your enemy will have GTB on anyways, or do any real damage with melee as they have no Mastery skills, and no I don't play wizard.

On what you say about Priests.. VapoRub obviously only discussed Int-Based builds because if you choose to go battle (read: STR) builds, you'll have the capacity of carrying more berries naturally. Priests have Pneuma, Safety Wall, Assumptio, the capacity of being able to switch and actually efficiently use STR builds while threatening with coma, their chances of surviving is much better than a wizards, and can actually do something in return if they wish to. The most a Priest needs in this server is an Elite Mace so they can take advantage of their Mace Mastery skill.

On the Ninja comment, have you tried killing a Ninja with fcp on your champion? What are you exactly supposed to do? It's true that you can sight them to prevent them from hopping around and then push them against a wall, but even then they can avoid all your damage by spamming Cicada as they try to walk away from you again. I don't see a good ninja going down so easily, or having to spam Yggdrasil Berries unless they use Final Strike, and a good Final Strike build requires STR anyways.

Edited December 25, 2009 by Exhibition

[Nyanko]

Wizards have a decent advantage over other classes in iRO/kRO and thus have the lower weight capacity, as GTB is extremely rare and only another magic class (professor) can completely nullify what a wizard can do in a almost non-GTB environment. You honestly can't compare the survivability of a wizard to that of a priest just because of safety wall. What about long range attacks which bypass Safety Wall? Wizards don't have the luxury of being able to use Pneuma to then render an enemies' long range assault useless. Assumptio > Energy Coat, as being hit while having a Coat active means your SP constantly being drained, and as for Ice Wall goes, see previous comment on Long Range skills, as well as GTB rendering anything a Wizard can do useless, besides maybe a meager 5k-20k Stave, if that. Even if we were to allow wizards to carry upwards of 300 Yggdrasil Berries, what are they supposed to do in terms of offensive? They can't use coma (Lord of Death Card Coma Chance is a joke), and your enemy will have GTB on anyways, or do any real damage with melee as they have no Mastery skills, and no I don't play wizard.

On what you say about Priests.. VapoRub obviously only discussed Int-Based builds because if you choose to go battle (read: STR) builds, you'll have the capacity of carrying more berries naturally. Priests have Pneuma, Safety Wall, Assumptio, the capacity of being able to switch and actually efficiently use STR builds while threatening with coma, their chances of surviving is much better than a wizards, and can actually do something in return if they wish to. The most a Priest needs in this server is an Elite Mace so they can take advantage of their Mace Mastery skill.

On the Ninja comment, have you tried killing a Ninja with fcp on your champion? What are you exactly supposed to do? It's true that you can sight them to prevent them from hopping around and then push them against a wall, but even then they can avoid all your damage by spamming Cicada as they try to walk away from you again. I don't see a good ninja going down so easily, or having to spam Yggdrasil Berries unless they use Final Strike, and a good Final Strike build requires STR anyways.

Ice wall can block long range if you put it around you enough that they can't aim on you. I have tried it and it works very well. [: Also gtb isn't the end unless they're fcp'd, not EVERYONE fcp's, you can chance your luck with strip cards for weap AND shield while you stay in a safety wall. YES I TRIED ALL OF DIS AND IT WORKS KTHX.

P.S: I was talking about mainly hybrid, when I went hybrid here the weight was pretty damn low still, could hardly hold converters & yggs & aloe.

Just a FYI John; I play MvP champ now, LOL. I have killed many ninjas on my priest in the past however, they can't carry a whole lot which is my suggestion for making those stones not needed by missy/fcloak, make them cost 0 weight or raise their weight a incy bit.

Not all ninjas are fs build, as not all priests are battle or support rubbish.

Now the GS anyone?

[Kittie]

iRO and other low rates...we here at fRO don't play like iRO - if we did, we wouldn't have to rely much on yggdrasil berries, or even healing items since the damage output and furthermore DPS wouldn't be high or overwhelming.

With the increased availability of yggdrasil seeds, and EDP bottles - and the sharp increases in attack bonuses due to the hightened stats, custom weapons, and availability of such cards as incantation samurai and turtle general, there is an large emphasis on damage output. Assassins are capable of lightening speed DPS with their basically unlimited supply of EDP bottles, and Champs can ygg frequently and spam Asura with kiel cards.

Following along so far? Good.

Yggs are so necessary here - it doesn't matter how much strategy you use, you get caught by one asura or even one second of an assassin cross on dual daggars or even two lord knight bowling bashes, what is the first thing you do?

You don't click somewhere else to move and re-strategize.

You ygg.

And in the case of the assassin cross, you burn through 20 yggs.

If this was iRO, you wouldn't need to ygg or use healing items as rapidly as we do here on a high rate server like fRO since priests would be capable of outhealing and skill delays would slow down damage output for you to even possibly, run, recover, and strike.

So it's fine that certain classes that aren't strength bases don't need an increased weight capacity since its not necessary for good players to carry healing items. But in fRO, priests can't outheal the DPS, so healing is up to the player.

Every class should have an equal amount of ygg capacity, and so far, through the most recent update, a lot of them do. Stalkers can get away with 70-ish str and carry 200 yggs. That's crazy for a class that is able to hide, stealth walk, and backslide to avoid a lot of damage.

Gypsies/Clowns on the other hand will carry somewhere from 80-100 yggs, less if they want more armors or aren't elite, won't have the ability of backsliding away to quickly get out of a scary situation, and they don't have pushback techniques like LKs, and Paladins have - or even Wizards with storm gust. All they can do is slow grace (if they have soul link as a clown), speed pot and run away, but they'll still suffer a lot of damage while making the getaway.

You can argue that tarot is great, but against FCP'd GTB'd character's, coma doesn't do the trick like you want it to. You say, "Well then AV their asses!". It's not that easy to pull off 3 AVs in one run, the usual is 2. And they can ygg before the third one hits. If you had a thana card, then yeah, you could toast a lot of players - until they put on skolls.

In my experiences in LMS, it's a game of outlasting their FCP. And to do that you need yggs. It all comes down to that, sadly. There are other factors like equips, and general skill, but you can't deny that yggs play a huge part in gameplay for this server.

[Sensation]

Too much ranting, cool off and try again in a few weeks.

Rejected.