Non-usable Item Pvp Room [questions+requests]

[Yuki]

And also one more thing, you're requesting a PvP Room. Please take note that when you suggest a PvP Room, the kills count towards PvP Ladder. I wonder how easy it'll bee to gain kill from there if you say the noobs will come inside.

Unless, you want this room to not count for kills, then nevermind.

[Ipwnyourmom]

You think that people don't care about the new people of Forsaken? If we didn't we wouldn't have implemented all of these extra headgear quests that help players in both gearing up and selling for coupons, which also leads to gearing up. And the GMs CONTINUE doing this to help new players. The majority of players already are using forsaken king sets and belts and usually valk helm, why would they need it besides going into ND? Only for another way to kill somebody. Now, you say this will bring new methods of killing people. By new methods, do you mean that it will require people to change equipment, use a variety of skills, and change elements? Those things sound like something we already do. Now, about your PvP, how would you continue PvPing for longer periods of time? Will your limit be on your SP limit? Let's see this by the classes:

SinX : Look like the MVPs out in non-berry PvP; high damage, reduce other people's damage, and only need to melee? Pretty nice.

Champs : Major skills : Asura and TSS. Asura kills all SP and TSS requires being spammed to kill. Spamming wastes SP doesn't it? Non-usable doesn't allow SP healing items = dead after SP gone.

LK : BB spam = SP gone = dead.

WS : Cart term = SP gone = dead.

Creator : AD spam = SP gone = dead.

Clowns/Gypsies : AV/Tarot spam = SP gone = dead.

Ninja : Spam magic = SP gone/ gets reflected = dead by SP or HP.

Prof : Spam magic = SP gone/ gets reflected = dead by SP or HP.

High Wizard : These guys may have a chance with 3 kiel spam, but people can just slap on a GTB and run up to this guy. Low HP count = dead.

Sniper : These guys have a higher fighting chance with their range and traps, but hey, other jobs have high damage ranged skills too. No berries, low HP count, and no shield means these guys are done.

Priest : These guys might have the highest chance since they can heal themselves and reduce damage, but what can you do? Just coma and try to keep yourself alive.

Stalkers : Bow stalkers have same flaw as sniper, but can't even use traps, although they can strip. But that's solved by a FCPer. Melee stalkers have to get close, most melee jobs can drop a stalker in seconds.

Also notice something that LK, WS, Champs, and melee Stalkers need? Converters. What are they? Usable items. Sinx's can be demolished by a simple argiope card since they are only equipped with poison element. A sinx may notice that the person has Argiope on when they attack, but that already may be too late and the sinx may have less HP than their opponent.

Don't wanna read all this? Simply put: bad idea.

Can't you see? The reason FOR this kind of PvP room is so people can't spam skills like a muh'fucker. They will have to choose when to use the skills and find different ways to get around. (eg. LK: Charge Attack, melee, BB, melee)

SinX: I don't even know what you said...

Champs: The reason Asura was made to take out all your SP was because it does a tremendous amount of damage and not meant to be spammed. You can still use TSS but why don't you add in some melee attack? There's a reason why champion's also have raging trifecta blow, quadruple blow, tiger fist, etc... These attacks can also do a lot of damage if done correctly. It's pretty sad that some champs never even tried some of those skills and go right into Asura'ing and TSS'ing.

LK: Must you spam BB? You can use aura blade, two-hand quicken, frenzy, etc..to increase your melee.

WS: I don't know much about WhiteSmith's probably cause they hardly PvP at all. And if they did, they would most likely go melee and add in a few other smith's. Again, I don't know much about White Smith's so I'll have to get back to you on that one.

Creator: Melee, homunculas, etc... Once again, you don't ONLY have to use one skill.

Clown/Gypies: Range attack with AV and throw in a couple of Tarots. Why must you spam?

Ninja/Professor/High Wizard: Forget about these classes, with the use of GTB/Maya, it wouldn't matter in this PvP room or anywhere, they can't do much.

Sniper: I actually think ranged classes shouldn't complain about this situation.

Priest: How many priests actually PvP? The only Priests I've seen pvp are the one's that keep melee'ing you, trying to divest your shield so they can cast holy light on you.

Stalker: Getting close is no problem for a stalker at all. Remember, they can copy skills. Stalker's with BB can do high amounts of damage.

If you read my previous posts or topics. I only said items that can't increase HP or SP. And also, if you're scared that people can't spam that much. Don't worry, without any healing items, it won't take that many times of a skill to be cast before they're dead. I just used the name Non-Usable Item PvP Room, what was I suppose to say? No Items that can heal or increase SP PvP Room?

And if everyone is so skeptical to this decision. You must have very little experience with RO. Many other server's run fine without the mass usage of Yggdrasil Berries.

And also one more thing, you're requesting a PvP Room. Please take note that when you suggest a PvP Room, the kills count towards PvP Ladder. I wonder how easy it'll bee to gain kill from there if you say the noobs will come inside.

Unless, you want this room to not count for kills, then nevermind.

Anybody can enter the PvP rooms that we already have. Why don't noobs enter there? And also, if you're scared too many kills will happen. Everyone will be killing faster, not just 1 person. Kill/Death = 100:300 or 1:3. It's the same. If kills are easier to get, everyone will be improving at the same rate.

I'm pretty sure the RO world is big enough to find a map that no one is on.

How are we going to get the message out?

I think you guys also have to take into account that this is a High Rate Server, not a Low Rate/Mid Rate Server. When in a high rate server, you die a lot faster and most strategies involve parties (gangs).

Every class has many skills, are you saying people are too stupid to combine skills and make their own strategies?

Considering people won't go 2x FBH and not go in at more than 50% weight...

I don't know man! You'd still die too fast for any "strategy" and I think that would equate more to runnin' and delayin' so you regenerate SP at the least, never mind HP it regenerates too slow.

I stick with this server being a high rate. But well, have your room. It's still gonna be camped with people with the best gear so they can kill you in 1-2 seconds before you can even press the ygg- oh wait. No yggs.

Asura Strike = 1 hit kill. Most people will say there's no way around it. But what's happened? People found a way around it, reflect and reduct. I'm sure people will find another way around being killed in 1-2 seconds if they can find a way to survive an Asura Strike.

And if you can get killed in 1-2 seconds, looks like you'll have to change the way you gear yourself. Most likely if people can kill you in 1-2 seconds, you can kill them in about the same time.

Edited September 20, 2009 by Ipwnyourmom

[kuoch]

I SAY WE SHOULD JUST SUGGEST A LOW/MID RATE FORSAKENRO AND WE PVP THERE, HOW ABOUT THAT? n_____n

[Terroryst]

Can't you see? The reason FOR this kind of PvP room is so people can't spam skills like a muh'fucker. They will have to choose when to use the skills and find different ways to get around. (eg. LK: Charge Attack, melee, BB, melee)

LK: Must you spam BB? You can use aura blade, two-hand quicken, frenzy, etc..to increase your melee.

WS: I don't know much about WhiteSmith's probably cause they hardly PvP at all. And if they did, they would most likely go melee and add in a few other smith's. Again, I don't know much about White Smith's so I'll have to get back to you on that one.

Creator: Melee, homunculas, etc... Once again, you don't ONLY have to use one skill.

Clown/Gypies: Range attack with AV and throw in a couple of Tarots. Why must you spam?

Ninja/Professor/High Wizard: Forget about these classes, with the use of GTB/Maya, it wouldn't matter in this PvP room or anywhere, they can't do much.

Priest: How many priests actually PvP? The only Priests I've seen pvp are the one's that keep melee'ing you, trying to divest your shield so they can cast holy light on you.

Stalker: Getting close is no problem for a stalker at all. Remember, they can copy skills. Stalker's with BB can do high amounts of damage.

And if everyone is so skeptical to this decision. You must have very little experience with RO. Many other server's run fine without the mass usage of Yggdrasil Berries.

Every class has many skills, are you saying people are too stupid to combine skills and make their own strategies?

So you want people to instead of combining skills to kill people, to use skills until they hit their limit, then rely on melee to win? Relying on melee-only would of course make the victory only into a chance. A question of "Did I do enough when I was doing skills? Am I hitting enough with melee? How much longer can I last if I kill this person?"

LK's Aura Blade has no effect here. Are you kidding me with two hand quicken and frenzy? Are you saying that LKs will have to resort to frenzy in this PvP? Two handed = no shield = shit load of damage. Sure there's that 50% that you don't get hit, but what about the times that you do? It won't be hard to pop off 10k+ on you. Also, if they're fighting against somebody with sinx card, they can cloak and let your skill kill yourself.

WS, Creator, AND Clown all have low HP mods. Now you're suggesting them to get close to people that excel in melee combat? Clowns would constantly have to switch between guitar and bow if they want to AV AND melee at far range. If somebody gets too close when they have a bow on, they're done for since bow is two handed. Now, what can creator do with their homuns? They do very little damage and have very low HP.

Wouldn't matter in this PvP? So you're saying there wouldn't be class balance?

The priests that play rely on Coma. Now, what chance at coma would they have if they must continuously spam skills upon themselves? Kyrie Eleison/Assumption, heal, safety wall...

Stalkers get close to somebody? Stalkers have very low HP mods, and they have to rely on full strip to kill people most of the time. If they have BB copied, that implies getting close. So you want a stalker with maybe 200k HP get close to, oh I don't know, let's say a whitesmith, another class with low HP. Lets say the stalker does about 10k BB and has 2 FBH on. That's about 200 something SP with 2 FBH, and BB costs 22 SP. Stalker can pop off 9, maybe 10 bowling bashes. What's that, 200k total? Might kill the WS, sure. But lets say the WS also does about 20k cart terms and has RSX on. Now, cart term only costs 15 SP and is as easily spammable as BB. Whether the Stalker or WS wins, they will end up with considerably low HP, and won't be able to kill anything else.

A lot of servers I've tried whenever I get bored of Forsaken has berries being sold by NPCs.

Too stupid to make strategies? It is pretty difficult to have different strategies for every person, not to mention that you'd have to have multiple strategies for each person since they can change each time you battle, and not everybody does the same thing.

[Ipwnyourmom]

So you want people to instead of combining skills to kill people, to use skills until they hit their limit, then rely on melee to win? Relying on melee-only would of course make the victory only into a chance. A question of "Did I do enough when I was doing skills? Am I hitting enough with melee? How much longer can I last if I kill this person?"

LK's Aura Blade has no effect here. Are you kidding me with two hand quicken and frenzy? Are you saying that LKs will have to resort to frenzy in this PvP? Two handed = no shield = shit load of damage. Sure there's that 50% that you don't get hit, but what about the times that you do? It won't be hard to pop off 10k+ on you. Also, if they're fighting against somebody with sinx card, they can cloak and let your skill kill yourself.

WS, Creator, AND Clown all have low HP mods. Now you're suggesting them to get close to people that excel in melee combat? Clowns would constantly have to switch between guitar and bow if they want to AV AND melee at far range. If somebody gets too close when they have a bow on, they're done for since bow is two handed. Now, what can creator do with their homuns? They do very little damage and have very low HP.

Wouldn't matter in this PvP? So you're saying there wouldn't be class balance?

The priests that play rely on Coma. Now, what chance at coma would they have if they must continuously spam skills upon themselves? Kyrie Eleison/Assumption, heal, safety wall...

Stalkers get close to somebody? Stalkers have very low HP mods, and they have to rely on full strip to kill people most of the time. If they have BB copied, that implies getting close. So you want a stalker with maybe 200k HP get close to, oh I don't know, let's say a whitesmith, another class with low HP. Lets say the stalker does about 10k BB and has 2 FBH on. That's about 200 something SP with 2 FBH, and BB costs 22 SP. Stalker can pop off 9, maybe 10 bowling bashes. What's that, 200k total? Might kill the WS, sure. But lets say the WS also does about 20k cart terms and has RSX on. Now, cart term only costs 15 SP and is as easily spammable as BB. Whether the Stalker or WS wins, they will end up with considerably low HP, and won't be able to kill anything else.

A lot of servers I've tried whenever I get bored of Forsaken has berries being sold by NPCs.

Too stupid to make strategies? It is pretty difficult to have different strategies for every person, not to mention that you'd have to have multiple strategies for each person since they can change each time you battle, and not everybody does the same thing.

I haven't read what you said and I'm not going to read your nerdy essay rebuttals.

But first, I want to know why you're so against this. I doubt if this was made you would even go to it. Remember, this PvP Room, is for the people who DON'T want to continuously spam healing items or can not get them. People will still use Yggdrasil berries in PvP maps and the other 2 PvP Rooms, this PvP room is a choice for people. It gives more variety and something new. I'm not saying to delete the other 2 rooms, just saying we could add a new one for people who don't want to PvP that way.

[Terroryst]

I haven't read what you said and I'm not going to read your nerdy essay rebuttals.

Are you fuckin' serious? Nerdy essay rebuttals? You seriously want to do that here?

Edit:

Lemme say this so a person like you can understand then.

You're asking for a room that very few people will go to when you can just go to a private map.

[Ipwnyourmom]

Are you fuckin' serious? Nerdy essay rebuttals? You seriously want to do that here?

Edit:

Lemme say this so a person like you can understand then.

You're asking for a room that very few people will go to when you can just go to a private map.

Don't even say private map. It's wasn't even your idea. You know what's wrong with a private map. I won't be here forever, and I'm not going to BC every single day to come to a certain map to PvP. People should have a choice of being able to PvP without using healing items.

[Devotion]

I like the idea. But in my opinion, there are holes in the idea, and the following suggestions imght help to rid us of certain problems:

1. Before allowing kills in this room to count, we will test it and observe how easily players kill each other.

2. To remove the qualm over donation vs. non-donation, only basic RO gears should be allowed in. That is to say, nothing custom at all.

3. If you truly want this to be equal on all levels, then there should be no GTB allowed in.

Those last two factors will ensure that players don't die as quickly, and will place everyone on equal terms, since basic RO items are a cinch to obtain.

I've also moved this topic to the suggestion forums.

[Terroryst]

Don't even say private map. It's wasn't even your idea. You know what's wrong with a private map. I won't be here forever, and I'm not going to BC every single day to come to a certain map to PvP. People should have a choice of being able to PvP without using healing items.

So you want Genesis to make a new PvP room, that we've tried before, to be implemented again for the VERY few people that want to try this?

[Ipwnyourmom]

So you want Genesis to make a new PvP room, that we've tried before, to be implemented again for the VERY few people that want to try this?

Yes.

[Terroryst]

Does a GM do an event that only got 3 votes out of 50?

[Ipwnyourmom]

Does a GM do an event that only got 3 votes out of 50?

They could.

[Terroryst]

But do they? They COULD do the requests in the rejected section, but do they?

[Ipwnyourmom]

But do they? They COULD do the requests in the rejected section, but do they?

Ok, you're being very selfish here. This PvP room is obviously not for you. It's for the PvP who DO NOT want to use healing items and for people who just started but would like a PvP experience. And who knows, maybe this room will become more popular than the other 2. We can't be an exclusive community and kick the noobs to pvp at thors. We should let them PvP with us and let them have an advantage.

[Terroryst]

Lol, nobody told them to go to thor if they wanted to PvP. Last time I checked it was only people being leeched out there, and people picking on the people being leeched or protecting them. The only way they'd have an advantage is if we do what Devotion said, and not allow any custom items at all.

[Dart]

Sinx would be the main killer, easily. They have cloak. Something that doesn't cost a lot of sp. Even with original RO gears, cloak. If you're using original RO gears, means you have WAY less reduction from demi human. There are gears out there for sinx that are pretty damn close to Fdaggers. Give a sinx that, and with cloak, they could easily kill 5 people before dying once. Which is something no other class can do, as easily. Profs and HW will do good, if GTB isn't allowed. But only for so long. And again, sinx with cloak. Or sinx and hide, then grimtooth. Sinx has way too many ways to fight off nearly every class in the game. It's made to kill. This room would only make the sinx better at it.

My two cents.

[Sorrow]

A non-iten PvP would completely suck =X

Because of what was said already in most cazes you just deal fast and ruthless or uncanning burst damage and it's all over; including the fun.

Sometimes i pop into pvp arena get someone distracted and bust them to ashes with bolts as the game is, if they couldn't ygg it would be meaningless. (Note; if the first bolt fails>Esc=Change Char immediatly XD)

Anyways, i always thought that a classic pvp room would be aweasome.

Meaning; No Yggs, No Customs, No MvP cards.

[Ipwnyourmom]

Sinx would be the main killer, easily. They have cloak. Something that doesn't cost a lot of sp. Even with original RO gears, cloak. If you're using original RO gears, means you have WAY less reduction from demi human. There are gears out there for sinx that are pretty damn close to Fdaggers. Give a sinx that, and with cloak, they could easily kill 5 people before dying once. Which is something no other class can do, as easily. Profs and HW will do good, if GTB isn't allowed. But only for so long. And again, sinx with cloak. Or sinx and hide, then grimtooth. Sinx has way too many ways to fight off nearly every class in the game. It's made to kill. This room would only make the sinx better at it.

My two cents.

Any classes can get cloak with an Assassin Cross Card. And almost every class has a skill that can reveal hiding or cloak. A SinX equipped with 2 FBH; how many times can you actually cloak? Wouldn't people find something better to use their SP for? (eg. backslide, EDP) Yes, some gears are close to F. daggers, but remember, F.daggers are only strong because of their effects AND [4]. And also, if someone is dominating at PvP and killing everyone, don't you think people will be smart enough to attack that person when they first see him? Yes, it's called ganging, but seriously, if he has that much of an advantage over others (which I don't think he'll have) he deserves to be ganged. Hide isn't a good skill at all. Which classes can't reveal hide or just simply equip a horong card. If you're hiding, you must be hiding for a reason, and once you're uncovered, you're screwed. Not much of an advantage there. Profs and HW will get to enjoy a whole new level of fun, especially Prof, because of all those interesting skills that might actually effect people. Grimtooth - easily escapable. Basically someone shooting arrows that can't move. Just cloak, run up, and attack. And Sinx stands for Assassin; Maybe that's why it was made to kill.

Remember this is a high-rate, everyone will be at the different disadvantages because half the game is taken out - the leveling. The original design was not to just PvP but also to level.

Lol, nobody told them to go to thor if they wanted to PvP. Last time I checked it was only people being leeched out there, and people picking on the people being leeched or protecting them. The only way they'd have an advantage is if we do what Devotion said, and not allow any custom items at all.

I wasn't against that. And if you're going to complain about how hard it was to get those items and it would take the point out of the game. REMEMBER, there are still 2 other PvP rooms.

I like the idea. But in my opinion, there are holes in the idea, and the following suggestions imght help to rid us of certain problems:

1. Before allowing kills in this room to count, we will test it and observe how easily players kill each other.

2. To remove the qualm over donation vs. non-donation, only basic RO gears should be allowed in. That is to say, nothing custom at all.

3. If you truly want this to be equal on all levels, then there should be no GTB allowed in.

Those last two factors will ensure that players don't die as quickly, and will place everyone on equal terms, since basic RO items are a cinch to obtain.

I've also moved this topic to the suggestion forums.

Another suggestion could be that maybe make its own PvP Ladder and different prizes?

A non-iten PvP would completely suck =X

Because of what was said already in most cazes you just deal fast and ruthless or uncanning burst damage and it's all over; including the fun.

Sometimes i pop into pvp arena get someone distracted and bust them to ashes with bolts as the game is, if they couldn't ygg it would be meaningless. (Note; if the first bolt fails>Esc=Change Char immediatly XD)

Anyways, i always thought that a classic pvp room would be aweasome.

Meaning; No Yggs, No Customs, No MvP cards.

Guess they'll have to be smarter than just falling for your distracts...you spelled awesome wrong.

If you would like to suggest a classic PvP room, we will still have to get this Yggdrasil-healing-item-thing through first. So you might as well help me.

Edited September 20, 2009 by Ipwnyourmom

[Terroryst]

if you're going to complain about how hard it was to get those items and it would take the point out of the game. REMEMBER, there are still 2 other PvP rooms.

I never said anything about getting customs, this was for noobs right? Once they get this, what would they have to work to get? Anyways, SinX were made to melee, I don't think it'll be hard to find a way to kill a lot of people while you're there. You can go inside, take your 2 FBH shoes off, do all of your enchants, EDP, poison react, then put your shoes back on and you'll have max SP. Grimtooth is also pretty hard to get around when they're popping off 20k+'s and you can't cloak or do anything but get out of range, AND it has an AoE effect, so if he's getting ganged then he can have an instant advantage. Wait a little wait for everybody to get close, backslide, hide, spam grimtooth.

[Ipwnyourmom]

I never said anything about getting customs, this was for noobs right? Once they get this, what would they have to work to get? Anyways, SinX were made to melee, I don't think it'll be hard to find a way to kill a lot of people while you're there. You can go inside, take your 2 FBH shoes off, do all of your enchants, EDP, poison react, then put your shoes back on and you'll have max SP. Grimtooth is also pretty hard to get around when they're popping off 20k+'s and you can't cloak or do anything but get out of range, AND it has an AoE effect, so if he's getting ganged then he can have an instant advantage. Wait a little wait for everybody to get close, backslide, hide, spam grimtooth.

What would they have to work on? They would still have to work on getting better items for PvP in maps, woe, and the other 2 PvP rooms. SinX were made to melee, so are LK, Pally, [WS, Champs-ish] Obviously if everything was made for melee it would be boring. So the rest of the classes are for ranged. I don't even know why you're defending for melee, I would understand if you defended for range because they can hit you before you got to them. Yeah, and the taking off shoe thing. 1 dispell, poof, all your buffing shit is gone. And if people can wait, can't they wait out an EDP? Grimtooth is easily escapable and not that strong. Once again, you can't spam the skill because you'll lose your SP. Why do you think not many people use Grimtooth?

Edited September 20, 2009 by Ipwnyourmom

[Sensation]

To answer the main topic of the this suggestion.

PvP without consumables is just mimicking World of Warcraft, which has fairly slow PvP action compared to RO.

We tried non-consumables and classes that dominated were indeed limited, but still completely dominating PvP as we know it now.

It will not work, this game works around fast action, if you'd like a non-consumable PvP, we'd need to tone down damage and increase healing effective skills.

The pace is just too high to bother with a non-consumable PvP ground.

There are more ways to limit Champions to not Asura as much and changing how Assassins play, PvP isn't just about those 2 classes either.

Anyway, no solid reason how this could be implemented has been suggested yet.

Not allowing custom gears still leaves items such as ice pick and thanatos card available (without skolls, you can see who are going to dominate PvP right there).

P.S. Grimtooth is effective, spammable and slightly stunlocking, people just underestimate it and most people have problems being creative and do not play different than others.

[Ipwnyourmom]

To answer the main topic of the this suggestion.

PvP without consumables is just mimicking World of Warcraft, which has fairly slow PvP action compared to RO.

We tried non-consumables and classes that dominated were indeed limited, but still completely dominating PvP as we know it now.

It will not work, this game works around fast action, if you'd like a non-consumable PvP, we'd need to tone down damage and increase healing effective skills.

The pace is just too high to bother with a non-consumable PvP ground.

There are more ways to limit Champions to not Asura as much and changing how Assassins play, PvP isn't just about those 2 classes either.

Anyway, no solid reason how this could be implemented has been suggested yet.

Not allowing custom gears still leaves items such as ice pick and thanatos card available (without skolls, you can see who are going to dominate PvP right there).

P.S. Grimtooth is effective, spammable and slightly stunlocking, people just underestimate it and most people have problems being creative and do not play different than others.

No, just no. World of Warcraft has a slow PvP because people need to run up to the characters and certain skills requires you to face them. Also, the skills in WoW aren't used nearly as fast as RO, and WoW also has special movements. I've also seen people kill fast in WoW, certainly faster than RO with all the use of Yggdrasil Berries.

How else can we limit champions to not asura as much? The game designers already tried by taking up all the Sp when the skill is used. People got past that by Ygg'ing.

There are solid reasons, just too many people trying to argue against me because they don't like me.

I don't think Ice Pick and Thanatos card is such a big deal. But you could easily just not allow it in PvP room. I'm just wondering why you guys are bringing up a lot of issues which the original PvP room's already have. (eg. Champs + SinX dominating, Ice Pick + Thanatos, excluding magic users.) If you guys can bypass those issues for those PvP rooms, why not this one? And you've got the whole dominating thing wrong I'm sorry. Everyone can use Ice Pick + Thanatos card, but the people who got them earned them. And if they earn their items, they should be at an advantage over others. Everyone who spends time getting their items will ALWAYS be at an advantage against those who don't.

What I'm trying to say is, this PvP room won't make EVERYTHING equal, it just takes out 1 factor that may make PvP more interesting. Side-effects of this PvP room are that noobs can participate, magic users may have a chance, etc...

P.S. EXACTLY, people will start having to be more creative instead of the usual Un-original PvP methods.

Edited September 20, 2009 by Ipwnyourmom

[Sensation]

Ice pick and thanatos card are only there for the melee characters.

And the way you see RO is low rate and even there you can fairly spam asura by using blue pots, having a professor by your side or other nice tricks to regain SP quickly.

The GTB card will still be around, also a legitimate card and official, if we keep excluding items it won't even be "like the official" RO anymore either.

EDP was rare so Assassins would only be really use it during WoE when it really was crucial.

All I was asking for was a solid reason and not a rant for this PvP room to be implemented.

You may or may not have noticed, there's a lot of people opposing this idea and they will most likely not enter.

The result would be a PvP room with 1 person in there and an occasional visitor who comes in, get killed and will never return because his consumables didn't save him(because he couldn't use them) against the 200k Sonic Blow that was just performed.

What I'm trying to say is, consumables were always in the game and also were always used.

No one is against you, we just want to have good reasons to implement such sensitive material.

[Dart]

No, just no. World of Warcraft has a slow PvP because people need to run up to the characters and certain skills requires you to face them. Also, the skills in WoW aren't used nearly as fast as RO, and WoW also has special movements. I've also seen people kill fast in WoW, certainly faster than RO with all the use of Yggdrasil Berries.

How else can we limit champions to not asura as much? The game designers already tried by taking up all the Sp when the skill is used. People got past that by Ygg'ing.

There are solid reasons, just too many people trying to argue against me because they don't like me.

I don't think Ice Pick and Thanatos card is such a big deal. But you could easily just not allow it in PvP room. I'm just wondering why you guys are bringing up a lot of issues which the original PvP room's already have. (eg. Champs + SinX dominating, Ice Pick + Thanatos, excluding magic users.) If you guys can bypass those issues for those PvP rooms, why not this one? And you've got the whole dominating thing wrong I'm sorry. Everyone can use Ice Pick + Thanatos card, but the people who got them earned them. And if they earn their items, they should be at an advantage over others. Everyone who spends time getting their items will ALWAYS be at an advantage against those who don't.

What I'm trying to say is, this PvP room won't make EVERYTHING equal, it just takes out 1 factor that may make PvP more interesting. Side-effects of this PvP room are that noobs can participate, magic users may have a chance, etc...

P.S. EXACTLY, people will start having to be more creative instead of the usual Un-original PvP methods.

Don't be so arrogant as to believe people are against the idea just because it's you. No one cares enough to go against the idea, solely because YOU are proposing it. A number of people have proposed this in the past and all with the same conclusion. Largely based, on the fact that a non-consumable PvP room was available in the past. Said PvP room was a HUGE failure, and thus removed. Come up with SOLID reasons why this room should be made available. Not reasons why you WANT it made. But why it SHOULD be made.

[Devotion]

Then bring it back to basics: classic PVP room with no customs, no powerful official gear, no powerful usables, and no MVP cards. That's what the demolition event was supposed to be, so if we can't have that why not have an equivalent PVP room?

Oh, forgot to mention that we could code the NPC to debuff players upon entry, including FCP.

I also forgot to mention, that probably 90% of our players don't actively visit our forums, and therefore won't make an opinion on topics like this. Many of those players are newbs who would probably appreciate a cool place to PVP without a decked out class stealing the fun.

Edited September 21, 2009 by Devotion