Snipers Suck.

[sessions]

Snipers cannot get the same 20% (f shield) + 35% (usakoring) that other classes can, while still being able to have a damage output.

My suggestion then: Give the Elite Sniper Bow some reductions. Wouldn't have to be on par with the shield, could just be something like 10-15% demi-human reduction. Because I mean seriously this sexy class needs a boost somewhere.

Another possible suggestion: All elite bows have the reduction (i.e. Stalker, Clown, Gypsy).

The Sniper needs it the most as it is their main weapon and quite frankly, they are fail currently... But it would be nice for the other classes also.

That is all.

[Terroryst]

Same should go for Stalker then.

[Anarii]

Suree. As of now Snipers are rarely used for competitive PvP, pretty much only used as trap slaves. On another note.. ranged stripping should be brought back.

and to clarify for you jay

Another possible suggestion (does not have to be accepted.. I dont care): All elite bows have the reduction (i.e. Stalker, Clown,

[sessions]

I agree with both of you completely. (Especially because I main Stalker :O)

[Perishable]

Same should go for Stalker then.

[sessions]

Another possible suggestion: All elite bows have the reduction (i.e. Stalker, Clown, Gypsy).

That is all.

[Millenia]

Maybe you're playing sniper wrong then... Sniper, long ranged class. Long ranged. Snipers need long-ranged stripping back more than anything.

[orthikuss]

Because I mean seriously this sexy class needs a boost somewhere.

/lv /lv /lv

[L2Aim]

Trap duration needs to be fixed to start with.

Damage output simply isn't enough, bows are the only physical weapons without extra damage on Demi-Humans.

Long range is barely an option, there is cloaking, speed potions, other speed enhancements and fast health recovery (berry consumption).

The stripping did give some benefit, but with the massive amount of FCP scrolls still around they're nerfed no matter what(the solution will lead to massive QQ, delete all FCP scrolls without ever handing them out again).

Same applies with Coma for Snipers, call it a dirty trick, but it was one of the few things that kept the element of surprise in for that class.

The health mod only helped slightly, we gained the same health mods as Assassin Cross, but not the same stat bonuses or starting health, making it still inferior compared to any class that can easily fight with a shield.

Snipers still can be good, I've already came up with tactics to make it a more versatile class, yet the berries they can carry is insufficient to tank enough damage to carry out such alternative tactics.

There are enough changes available, but it will lead to some changes that will hurt ~70-90% of the player base, namely Assassin Cross, Champions and the Swordsman jobs.

Voting or polls would only turn out to be slightly corrupt as everyone would vote for their own benefit instead of a more challenging environment with more different classes.

[sessions]

Maybe you're playing sniper wrong then... Sniper, long ranged class. Long ranged. Snipers need long-ranged stripping back more than anything.

First thing: I do not play sniper. Even if they are long ranged, they're going to get hit by something and not having 55% demi-human reduction ability like most (*cough* ALL) classes is complete crap. Give them some defense, because their offense certainly is not bringing much.

I also believe that giving them long-ranged stripping has already been suggested by L2Aim and it would be redundant for me to suggest the same thing. I am focusing on their pitiful defense.

[Anarii]

Maybe you're playing sniper wrong then... Sniper, long ranged class. Long ranged. Snipers need long-ranged stripping back more than anything.

Even if you are long ranged, you WILL get hit, and sometimes one hit is enough. A small reduction wouldn't hurt, really.

[Ethereal]

A small reduction wouldn't hurt for the Elite Sniper Bow. As Leni notified, they need stripping back more than anything. But if they do, then they will have to be doing melee-ranged attacks on classes. When they attack classes like assassin cross, they will probably use Poison React in return, and there the snipers will have to deal with the damage. So a small reduction of damage would help.

[Millenia]

Sorry the guy I PvP'd with when he used Sniper always dominated whatever class he was dueling. If you don't use sniper then I don't understand why you decided to bring this up.. meh, okay, whatever. I don't want to have a huge discussion of why I believe Snipers are fine, and why you believe they need reductions... I must add though, Snipers can hit upwards of 20k+ each DS totalling 40k and it's easily spammable. I'll talk to Genesis, I've already come up with some Elite Weapon fixes ( I might post if anyone is interested ), I can add some reduction to the sniper bow (10%) on the list, I guess.

[Anarii]

Sorry the guy I PvP'd with when he used Sniper always dominated whatever class he was dueling. If you don't use sniper then I don't understand why you decided to bring this up.. meh, okay, whatever. I don't want to have a huge discussion of why I believe Snipers are fine, and why you believe they need reductions... I must add though, Snipers can hit upwards of 20k+ each DS totalling 40k and it's easily spammable. I'll talk to Genesis, I've already come up with some Elite Weapon fixes ( I might post if anyone is interested ), I can add some reduction to the sniper bow (10%) on the list, I guess.

Well for one, I have dueled good snipers and have won against them. You're right, he/I don't use sniper, but there's no wrong in seeking a little more balance, and wanting to see more snipers in PvP (as of now, I see little to none, and no good ones atm). Yeah, they can hit upwards of 20k, providing that the opponent is using gtb/no shield, but to reach that damage means sacrificing alot of stats to dex,wearing kobold hat,mant slot for pouring, which hurts your hp further.

y@@ sure i want to see those fixes!

[Xtopher]

I like the idea. :thumbsup_still:

demi human redux on bow. Also, maybe like a redux of magic dmg? Seeing how one can't use a bow and a gtb.... might as well, mages are screwed on this server anyway.

I would love to see some more snipers in pvp. It would counter balance this assassin population. :arrowhead:

And to the ppl who say "snipers are fine" or are capable of domination, I have a question for you: Then why don't we see more of them in pvp?

Answer: Because they suck.

[Terroryst]

and to clarify for you jay

mutha

[SketchyAngel]

Trap duration needs to be fixed to start with.

Damage output simply isn't enough, bows are the only physical weapons without extra damage on Demi-Humans.

Long range is barely an option, there is cloaking, speed potions, other speed enhancements and fast health recovery (berry consumption).

The stripping did give some benefit, but with the massive amount of FCP scrolls still around they're nerfed no matter what(the solution will lead to massive QQ, delete all FCP scrolls without ever handing them out again).

Same applies with Coma for Snipers, call it a dirty trick, but it was one of the few things that kept the element of surprise in for that class.

The health mod only helped slightly, we gained the same health mods as Assassin Cross, but not the same stat bonuses or starting health, making it still inferior compared to any class that can easily fight with a shield.

Snipers still can be good, I've already came up with tactics to make it a more versatile class, yet the berries they can carry is insufficient to tank enough damage to carry out such alternative tactics.

There are enough changes available, but it will lead to some changes that will hurt ~70-90% of the player base, namely Assassin Cross, Champions and the Swordsman jobs.

Voting or polls would only turn out to be slightly corrupt as everyone would vote for their own benefit instead of a more challenging environment with more different classes.

I completely 150% agree with you there.

And it's true, everyone would vote against it just like the GTB, because it doesn't benefit them and threatens them.

You know, and possibly release an item for stalkers/snipers/clown/gyp that gives them level 10 overweight?

[Millenia]

Well for one, I have dueled good snipers and have won against them. You're right, he/I don't use sniper, but there's no wrong in seeking a little more balance, and wanting to see more snipers in PvP (as of now, I see little to none, and no good ones atm). Yeah, they can hit upwards of 20k, providing that the opponent is using gtb/no shield, but to reach that damage means sacrificing alot of stats to dex,wearing kobold hat,mant slot for pouring, which hurts your hp further.

yeah well i know full well, i really dont wanna argue about whats wrong/good with sniper.

y@@ sure i want to see those fixes!

k brb new thread

[Anarii]

mutha

LOL

[sessions]

I completely 150% agree with you there.

And it's true, everyone would vote against it just like the GTB, because it doesn't benefit them and threatens them.

You know, and possibly release an item for stalkers/snipers/clown/gyp that gives them level 10 overweight?

Sexy idea.

[Xtopher]

You know, and possibly release an item for stalkers/snipers/clown/gyp that gives them level 10 overweight?

Not just those classes but also Wizards, Professors, and Priests would benefit from this. My priest has very low str and mainly int, as a lot of Wizards and Professors. So I go over 50% weight limit with just my equips + 30 berries.

I like this a lot. :speak_cool:

[SketchyAngel]

Not just those classes but also Wizards, Professors, and Priests would benefit from this. My priest has very low str and mainly int, as a lot of Wizards and Professors. So I go over 50% weight limit with just my equips + 30 berries.

I like this a lot. :speak_cool:

True say, I totally forgot to mention that due to the fact that we were talking about snipers.

Great idea, and thanks for reminding me.

[Nate.]

I agree with everything benefiting snipers in this topic, and yes we do suck atm.

But while we're on the subject of increasing sniper playabillity, how about that pneuma piercing arrow we've been waiting so long for? The most common case scenario of a Champ vs Sniper duel is that the Champion will cast pneuma and hide behind it to proceed to use TSS. A decent sniper will at least have an assassin cross card to cloak, and both classes cannot attack each other, untill the Champion snaps to the sniper with a ruwach casted to uncloak you, moving in for the asura or more TSS shots. The sniper attempts to fight back with an arrow repel into a round of double strafes or melee attacks, untill the Champ casts pneuma once again, and you just rinse and repeat until the sniper is defeated. (recreating just about all of my past duels with champs)

Of course a similar scenario could occur with other pneuma casters, most of them ending with the defeat of the sniper. This spawns a whole new debate of class balance but for now, I'm just saying. :/

[plotus2]

I agree with everything benefiting snipers in this topic, and yes we do suck atm.

But while we're on the subject of increasing sniper playabillity, how about that pneuma piercing arrow we've been waiting so long for? The most common case scenario of a Champ vs Sniper duel is that the Champion will cast pneuma and hide behind it to proceed to use TSS. A decent sniper will at least have an assassin cross card to cloak, and both classes cannot attack each other, untill the Champion snaps to the sniper with a ruwach casted to uncloak you, moving in for the asura or more TSS shots. The sniper attempts to fight back with an arrow repel into a round of double strafes or melee attacks, untill the Champ casts pneuma once again, and you just rinse and repeat until the sniper is defeated. (recreating just about all of my past duels with champs)

Of course a similar scenario could occur with other pneuma casters, most of them ending with the defeat of the sniper. This spawns a whole new debate of class balance but for now, I'm just saying. :/

True.

[sessions]

I dont know about pneuma piercing persay, however maybe making one of the skills snipers have (one that has knockback ability) pneuma piercing.

If there were to be pneuma piercing arrows there would need to be damage reductions on the arrows. Or make it so that you cannot hit anyone unless they have pneuma up. Needs to be some sort of balance with forcing snipers to switch arrows around. These are just ideas I'm throwing around I really haven't given any much thought...

I still stand by the damage reduction first and foremost as an essencial addition to the elite bow of both Snipers and Stalkers.