nnnitsuj Posted July 28, 2009 Report Posted July 28, 2009 I'm sure a lot of the pallies here are.. sorta bored of being just devo-ers & sac pallies. Seriously, they need more of a variety. I would like to do decent damage as a pally myself. I suggest for the shield skills to be effected by weapon cards and such [EX. Thana, incat, tg.. etc ]. Since pallies dont really have atk skills, their shield skills would do just fine. Shield Charge max atk is 200% increase it to say maybe 350%-470%. It'll act like an LK's BB. Pushes back farther to prevent ultra spam like BB. So increasing its damage % wouldnt be a problem. Plus it only hits once so if it does do like 15-20k you can still ygg through it. Shield Boomerang max atk is 250% increase it to match spear boom which is 350%. Not a big problem if shield boomerang was doing spear boomerang damage. Shield Chain does 150%. I say bring it up to 250% or 350% per attack. Match it up with an LK's spiral pierce. Of course itll require the pally to be full str to do damage. They wouldn't be OP'd cause they wouldnt be able to dish out damage AND tank/reflect at the same time. Theyll have to adjust to one of those builds. Id love it to be a full damage pally. What do you all think?
Terroryst Posted July 28, 2009 Report Posted July 28, 2009 I'd like it if their offensive skills weren't up to par with LK skills. LK was made to be a full out offensive class. Paladins on the other hand were built for a more supportive build. Pumping up their offensive skills this much and adding their supportive skills would be a deadly mix. I say yes to increasing the damage, just not this much.
Adamxd Posted July 28, 2009 Report Posted July 28, 2009 Just give new cards which will boost a bit pallies hp thats all.
Ryoji Posted July 28, 2009 Report Posted July 28, 2009 I thought the Shield attacks were based off the shield weight and refinement.. Why not make a different elite shield with more weight..or alter weight, or w/e..
~*God Of War*~ Posted July 28, 2009 Report Posted July 28, 2009 card but no weight :< all the weight does is let pallies carry less items and yggs QQ, the str pally thing wont make things unbalanced i mean how can u get poonzed by a 1k per hit shield chain O>O
~*God Of War*~ Posted July 28, 2009 Report Posted July 28, 2009 i know about weight but if u add more weight paladins have to lose some storage weight, that will lower the ammount of items we can carry QQ which is bad. even if u added a little weight it probably wont add much dmg to it, i think the heaviest shield is around 250 and it does a small ammount so what will a 300-500 do for those shield skills, max ive seen with those skills is probably 1200 :< so changing the weight to around 500 or so would add like 300. and it does 1200 only to those without any items QQ. whenever i do it to most players it does 100-700 qq so thats why i dont like the whole weight thing . another thing is that shield skills cant be increased by anything but weight bcoz it is a shield thing lol, so its always like neutral i thinx therefore dmg is reduced even more even if they wear like devs or somethin like that :<.
Terroryst Posted July 28, 2009 Report Posted July 28, 2009 Those three things reduce the damage of a lot of things.
conor Posted July 28, 2009 Report Posted July 28, 2009 no. paladin is a boring class and it should stay that way so pvp isn't swarmed by them.
Ryoji Posted July 28, 2009 Report Posted July 28, 2009 Yeah, but if you only raise the damage modifier the damage will still suck.. Besides, pallies don't need to carry more shit. They're carrying 100+ Yggs as is, you know how much potential weight damage that is?
nnnitsuj Posted July 28, 2009 Author Report Posted July 28, 2009 The shield skills are based on the weight of the SHIELD. Raising the damage mods will make it decent, adding it to be effected by weapon cards would make it semi on par with LK classes. LKs can be made into a full reflect defensive class. And at times, the reflect LK can be better than a reflect pally. Terminus' reflect builda long time ago proved it. @conor/ Swarmed by pallies? PvP is already swarmed by LKs, Champs, Sinxs, some devos pallies, creators, some ws, snipers, Gunslingers, clowns AND Gypsy. Making a pally a little offensive wont screw anything up, just adding variety to its class. I'm sure people are just afraid that their precious DPS high output damage would finally have a challenge.
Terroryst Posted July 28, 2009 Report Posted July 28, 2009 False False False FALSE Tell me how defensive they are. @Justin - LKs CAN be a big reflect tank. They put on OLs, Devs, Alice shield, Royal wings if they got any and some other stuff, but that's also open to everybody else, so you can't justify that as a reason. Terminus' build may have been reflect, but it also depends on the player's skill in PvP. And of course PvP is swarmed by those classes you named, because you basically named all of them.
Terroryst Posted July 28, 2009 Report Posted July 28, 2009 Parrying is the only skill that actually is defensive though.
Terroryst Posted July 28, 2009 Report Posted July 28, 2009 Lol, he compared the skills to LK's skills. That's the only reason I used them as examples. I'm saying they shouldn't be up to par in offensive skills, something that Paladins weren't made for.
Ryoji Posted July 28, 2009 Report Posted July 28, 2009 ok, ok. LKs set aside... Originally paladins were given different forms of offense.. Shield techniques supposedly being their main one, next to Grand Cross, and Sacrifice. Well on a HR like such, GC doesn't do poop and shields are useless because they have a damage cap Due to most of the shields only being able to do up to 1k of damage at most... Sacrifice is still win, but still that's limiting a versatile class to just 1-2 things. It's less about making them similiar or up to par with another class, but more about FIXING "useless" skills. =( Well, almost useless.
Terroryst Posted July 28, 2009 Report Posted July 28, 2009 If converters worked for their shields I think the damage mods right now are fine.
Ryoji Posted July 28, 2009 Report Posted July 28, 2009 It's not the reduction that's the problem. It's the set damage. Since the set damage is so low, even low hp classes can easily ignore such damage.
Sensation Posted July 28, 2009 Report Posted July 28, 2009 I think that Paladins can be put on hold till others classes have an equal chance in PvP. PvP isn't swarmed by the classes you mentioned, mainly by just Champs and Assassin Cross'. Occasionally you see 1 clown or gypsy, lots of paladin friends to support their Champion and Assassin Cross buddy and a few LKs from time-to-time. Of course, you could include the regular newbie joining the PvP map and count them as swarming the room and the seemingly class unbalance on the map. Do paladins really have it that bad? They're a nightmare to kill for most classes and with some patience you can also beat most other classes. The balance is slowly coming though, yet the swordsman class doesn't really need any help at the moment.
Ethereal Posted July 28, 2009 Report Posted July 28, 2009 Do paladins really have it that bad? They're a nightmare to kill for most classes and with some patience you can also beat most other classes. I do believe they still have it bad. Snipers still can't strip through bows at a range (only up-close), so they are forced to go to dagger in order to strip. Gypsies / Clowns do low damage with their shield reflect, but tarot dispells that. Tarot also has other advantages over them as well, but paladins are a major bleep to kill for clowns/gypsies. Creators still have a hard time since their breaking armor chances with AD is extremely low now. Therefore, the creators waste a lot of bombs or spend a lot of time melee-ing with a whitesmith card. In all honesty, with all the classes I've played so far, paladins are still a pain in the bleep to kill.
Devotion Posted July 29, 2009 Report Posted July 29, 2009 All opinions aside, it is extremely difficult to change class skills themselves, as they are linked with each other. That is why Genesis prefers to release changes to skills via new cards. On a HR, classes usually have a defining build. Example, asura champ, SB Sinx, AV clown etc. Other skills which would normally be used on a LR effectively are forgotten here because of low damage. Sacrifice is a HR pally's main way to dish damage, and I'm not too sure that should change. But back to the skills themselves, if we did this, we'd have cards, which would totally take away valuable slots from Paladins, and so they would likely not use the new cards, as they'd prefer to have more HP or reflect or what have you.
orthikuss Posted July 29, 2009 Report Posted July 29, 2009 @Nitemare92, most passionated LK in fro - Blackbeard I thought the Shield attacks were based off the shield weight and refinement.. Why not make a different elite shield with more weight..or alter weight, or w/e.. s e x y @ryoji, u soo cute!! ok, ok. LKs set aside... Originally paladins were given different forms of offense.. Shield techniques supposedly being their main one, next to Grand Cross, and Sacrifice. Well on a HR like such, GC doesn't do poop and shields are useless because they have a damage cap Due to most of the shields only being able to do up to 1k of damage at most... Sacrifice is still win, but still that's limiting a versatile class to just 1-2 things. It's less about making them similiar or up to par with another class, but more about FIXING "useless" skills. =( Well, almost useless. /ok elite paladin dagger[4] matk +20% int +10 int +10 for offense shield, i think cross shield[1] is good choice ... forsaken bloody crusader card (shield card) increase damage of rapid smiting, shield boomerang by 50% increase sp consumption of skills by 50% skill aftercast delay +10% NB: in this case, offense shield not defense shield.
Sensation Posted November 25, 2009 Report Posted November 25, 2009 Paladins are fine as they are. For now that is. DENIED.
