Pheone Posted March 17, 2009 Report Posted March 17, 2009 i don't feel that my comment was taken completely in context at all... in fact i found that to be rather offensive. While i may be new to the server, and this is the first time i've had to deal with the whitesmith card. I have played other servers, and found my whitesmith to be rather successful... and yes there is more to a whitesmith than simply trying to make buttered toast, we can forge too. because really thats all that we're good for in pvp with the exception of throw tomahawk and melt down in combination. Honestly thats my arguement, i should have the ability to be able to stand a fighting chance against a sinx with WS cards, but taking into account that one WS card overpowers meltdown consiterably. i might as well give up and make a sinx. instead of playing a class i know and love... because thats the only way to make it here? isn't that right? Personally yes i believe that it should be tottally and completely nerfed. but on the flip side so should gtb to give mages a fighting chance... with a mvp cards with 10% drop rates... im willing to accept a compromise. because like it was said before the intention of the makers of ro, made it for low rates. if the mvp card rate was significantly lower we wouldn't be having this conversation, because meltdown would be a force to be reckoned with, not many people would carry fcp, and therefore WS's and creators would be more accepted... you wouldn't laugh at the idea of a battlesmith. but for the here and now, on fro. where anyone with a couple of cards can pretty much BE a whitesmith or a creator, without the hassles of actually bieng a whitesmith. plus they can hide, or do any number of skills whitesmiths just don't have. and btw im all for dropping the percentage, and adding a penalty that causes you to break your own weapon. and honestly i personally feel that should break with or without fcp. that way the penalty actually means something. rather than just bieng a easily avoided farce. Oh, and im willing to compromise, im willing to take others opinions into account. cuz personally i wouldn't have really thought of the break chance of WS weapons from WS buffs... i do know what strategy means, i try and use it. but when a stalker is still seen. a sinx is a better WS than a WS. it just seems that mabye, something should change to allow a little strategy, instead of oh theres something lemme attack it right away. mabye i should just go make weapons and leave the actual game play to my sniper. cuz honestly i don't think its balanced the way it is.
Kuyuti Posted March 17, 2009 Report Posted March 17, 2009 Does a WS break their own armor even if they have fcp on lol?
Devotion Posted March 18, 2009 Report Posted March 18, 2009 Icon made a really good point. When everyone was fighting to either keep or nerf GTB, the main argument for the anti-GTB nerf was that mages could simply break and strip their opponent's stuff. Of course, this was countered with the fact that so many players make sure they're FCP'd. So if that's the case, and breaking is a large part of a magic user's PVP ability, why would we want to reduce that already diminished capability. In addition, maybe players should start making Whitesmiths as repair supporters, and go into PVP with their friends. The problem there is that most everyone wants the PVP glory for themselves and won't settle for just support. Oh well.
Evasive Posted March 18, 2009 Report Posted March 18, 2009 i don't feel that my comment was taken completely in context at all... in fact i found that to be rather offensive. While i may be new to the server, and this is the first time i've had to deal with the whitesmith card. I have played other servers, and found my whitesmith to be rather successful... and yes there is more to a whitesmith than simply trying to make buttered toast, we can forge too. because really thats all that we're good for in pvp with the exception of throw tomahawk and melt down in combination. Honestly thats my arguement, i should have the ability to be able to stand a fighting chance against a sinx with WS cards, but taking into account that one WS card overpowers meltdown consiterably. i might as well give up and make a sinx. instead of playing a class i know and love... because thats the only way to make it here? isn't that right? Personally yes i believe that it should be tottally and completely nerfed. but on the flip side so should gtb to give mages a fighting chance... with a mvp cards with 10% drop rates... im willing to accept a compromise. because like it was said before the intention of the makers of ro, made it for low rates. if the mvp card rate was significantly lower we wouldn't be having this conversation, because meltdown would be a force to be reckoned with, not many people would carry fcp, and therefore WS's and creators would be more accepted... you wouldn't laugh at the idea of a battlesmith. but for the here and now, on fro. where anyone with a couple of cards can pretty much BE a whitesmith or a creator, without the hassles of actually bieng a whitesmith. plus they can hide, or do any number of skills whitesmiths just don't have. and btw im all for dropping the percentage, and adding a penalty that causes you to break your own weapon. and honestly i personally feel that should break with or without fcp. that way the penalty actually means something. rather than just bieng a easily avoided farce. Oh, and im willing to compromise, im willing to take others opinions into account. cuz personally i wouldn't have really thought of the break chance of WS weapons from WS buffs... i do know what strategy means, i try and use it. but when a stalker is still seen. a sinx is a better WS than a WS. it just seems that mabye, something should change to allow a little strategy, instead of oh theres something lemme attack it right away. mabye i should just go make weapons and leave the actual game play to my sniper. cuz honestly i don't think its balanced the way it is. you're new so i won't say anything against you. be a ws or creator? you're shitting me. found this offensive? man up. or woman up. who cares become an adult and realize reality in this planet we call Earth, sugarcoating should be only used for infants, not teenagers. ok, be a ws? how? they're like, the only class that can bring down a paladin without taking massive reflect damage back. be a creator? they're the only class that if stalled long enough, can kill a paladin without suicide. *paladin used as example since it's a difficult class to destroy without suicide. ------- kuyuti: nothing that i've said is off-topic. read carefully, you know what's abuse and off topic? your over-usage of text expressions. me pointing it out is off-topic. learn how to use the words properly. ------- iraw, as you stated, tons of idiots go to pvp without freeze protection outside of armor (sheep hat / baseball cap = freeze protection alternatives), which is why sk card comes in handy and as i've said is used commonly as far as i've seen. ------- why should ws be nerfed? someone give me a direct answer/reason. convince me since it's obvious that fcp/unbreakable stuff = protection and if ws is nerfed, you still have to worry about stuff being stripped if you wish to not walk around with fcp.
*Kevin* Posted March 18, 2009 Report Posted March 18, 2009 Can a GM/Moderator tell me who is creating endless accounts to vote yes ? Chceking the IP will do the work :) . Sorry for the OT .
Armani Posted March 18, 2009 Report Posted March 18, 2009 Well guys think of it this way... Whitesmith Card nerfed to 1% 10 hits = 10% = less than 1 second to do 100 hits = 100% = 5 seconds. So... lol you can nerf it like I've been saying it this entire time. Your shit will still break.
Pheone Posted March 18, 2009 Report Posted March 18, 2009 Man im not crying like some kid... and trust me im more grown up than the majority of the population. Since i can buy my own beer. I haven't made one single "oh god no nerf it" or the world will come to an end, if it doesn't. oh well i will find a way to survive. cuz honestly thats the only thing i CAN do. im no gm, plain and simple i only have the power to say what i think. I shouldn't be forced into a purely support capacity. And since im still working at getting my forsaken armor. Which is unbreakable by nature. so really its the perfect solution for players who are actually crying about the card anyways... which really makes it where noone should be crying about the card, spend the time and effort or the cash to donate. I found it offensive, so what. i simply said what i thought of it. it wasn't sugarcoated oh well, that doesn't mean you have to say what you think in such a manner... its part of being grown up to not flame everyone for no good reason. or to say something in an rude manner. No Whitesmiths buffs do not break weapons and armor with protection. i suggest it as a downsided to the use of the card. to avoid abuse. i do suggest that if breaking their weapons and armor even if their protected, is at a low persentage rate. but i think it has the power to be a good alternative. In a one on one duel, yea im sure i can manage to take a pally down. but isn't the idea of equality? i read thru the rant section where a mage was annoyed about gtb. no im not trying to bring it up again... quite a few posts were over making other builds for your mage, even so far as building a wizzie to melee. well a wiz build for melee just isn't going to be as strong as some of the other classes. just isn't meant to be. the vote was to save gtb the way it was. and for that, mages have been reduced to mainly farming cara's. they have very little equality, their forced to build well away from their intended uses. So yes, mabye it should be kept, and i'll make my WS purely to kill pallys, and leave it at that. but i'd like to think their worth more than that. because here, the way things are. taking massive reflect damage? yggs seem to fix that in a fairly timely manner. besides reflect damage is based off your damage in the first place. i can take one down because i don't do that much damage in the first place. As for the percentage i think it should be dropped to is something like .02% like the summon spirit sphere card. that still seems to work enough to be useful, but not SO much that it becomes a nuisance.
Kuyuti Posted March 18, 2009 Report Posted March 18, 2009 Devotion its the shield that needs to be broken XP not the armor ^.~- Well if the % can't be lower add a penalty - That would make it a bit harder, or a bit of a decision even WS has a chance to break their armor.
Evasive Posted March 18, 2009 Report Posted March 18, 2009 Man im not crying like some kid... and trust me im more grown up than the majority of the population. Since i can buy my own beer. I haven't made one single "oh god no nerf it" or the world will come to an end, if it doesn't. oh well i will find a way to survive. cuz honestly thats the only thing i CAN do. im no gm, plain and simple i only have the power to say what i think. I shouldn't be forced into a purely support capacity. And since im still working at getting my forsaken armor. Which is unbreakable by nature. so really its the perfect solution for players who are actually crying about the card anyways... which really makes it where noone should be crying about the card, spend the time and effort or the cash to donate. I found it offensive, so what. i simply said what i thought of it. it wasn't sugarcoated oh well, that doesn't mean you have to say what you think in such a manner... its part of being grown up to not flame everyone for no good reason. or to say something in an rude manner. No Whitesmiths buffs do not break weapons and armor with protection. i suggest it as a downsided to the use of the card. to avoid abuse. i do suggest that if breaking their weapons and armor even if their protected, is at a low persentage rate. but i think it has the power to be a good alternative. In a one on one duel, yea im sure i can manage to take a pally down. but isn't the idea of equality? i read thru the rant section where a mage was annoyed about gtb. no im not trying to bring it up again... quite a few posts were over making other builds for your mage, even so far as building a wizzie to melee. well a wiz build for melee just isn't going to be as strong as some of the other classes. just isn't meant to be. the vote was to save gtb the way it was. and for that, mages have been reduced to mainly farming cara's. they have very little equality, their forced to build well away from their intended uses. So yes, mabye it should be kept, and i'll make my WS purely to kill pallys, and leave it at that. but i'd like to think their worth more than that. because here, the way things are. taking massive reflect damage? yggs seem to fix that in a fairly timely manner. besides reflect damage is based off your damage in the first place. i can take one down because i don't do that much damage in the first place. As for the percentage i think it should be dropped to is something like .02% like the summon spirit sphere card. that still seems to work enough to be useful, but not SO much that it becomes a nuisance. ok you can buy beer, so? doesn't mean you're mature, it means you're older. tl;dr but i read equality. every class can't take eachother down. some have greater advantages over others, that's balance since you can always switch characters and you can own the same things your opponent owns, it's not like anyone has ahura mazdah. anymore.
Pheone Posted March 18, 2009 Report Posted March 18, 2009 yes im older... usually that brings a certian amount of, how to say. respect for other people. honestly i find the ability to not be sarcastic or snide when im trying to make my own point, a rather mature quality. Because i could just flame everyone and call everyone immature and any number of other things, and try to make my point that way. Its just not nearly as effective as giving a certain amount of respect to others. i said it was offensive, it was how i felt. That was all i needed to say. Most the people who use the forums are highly skilled players. It's not wise to poke the bear. nor do i want to burn any possible bridges either. There is a certain balance that can be achieved between the classes. It is possible and i know darned well thats what the gm's tryed to achieve when they created fro. otherwise the website wouldn't say "Class Mods: Modified HP tables, skills and much more. All to ensure class balance." right on the web page. under features. So what is class balance, i believe a mod here said it perfectly when they said that means different things to everyone? Do you think that the Magical classes felt it was balanced when the gtb card stayed the same? i doubt it, and im sure that for the majority of the people who prefer magical characters, don't use them nearly as much as they would otherwise. I'm simply saying i don't see a balance between classes, when to drop an mvp in anything less than half an hour i have to get my sniper. i don't see class balance when theres a card that takes my toasty bread and butter and blows it out of the water. You can want to see the card stay the way it is and trust me i can understand why, its a huge strategical advantage. It's just a advantage im use to only seeing. how would it feel if i could hide and move twice as fast as a sinx? or i could shield reflect at 3 times the damage that a pally could? . my buffs don't exsactly give me huge advantages, they help me get buy just like everyone else because swinging an axe costs quite a big of aspd. so in the grand sceme of things i don't want to feel the need to go get another cara to take on that sinx, i've done it before i can do it again. and the most that i could possibly hope for is to get my butt handed to me on a silver platter, because the other player was just plain better than me. im ok with that. i relish in the fact that im not the absolute best at killing EVERYONE. because that gives me something to strive for. but knowing that a sinx can strip me FASTER than i can strip him? thats kinda jacked don'tcha think? i would almost go as far as to say. its just plain unfair. nerf the card, make it where its got disadvantages, make slow you down like most of my axes do, as if it isn't heavy enough and require alot of agi. but then they slow me down 10% too. hell make em only work on axes. just do something. cuz im sure the wizzie population would have loved 50mdef over complete class genocide. Edit: According to Iro at level ten the Whitesmiths Meltdown/Shattering strike skill has: 10% Weapons chance and 7% Armor chance. i believe this is the same as the WS card. But you can't exactly stack a skill like that. Also my apologies Rendezvous. i just get on a tangent, and don't know when to shut up lol
Millenia Posted March 18, 2009 Report Posted March 18, 2009 PARAGRAPHS USE THEM PLIS YOUR POST LOOKS LIKE: WALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXT WALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXT WALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXT WALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXT WALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXT WALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXT WALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXT WALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXT WALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXT WALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXT WALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXT WALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXT WALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXT WALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXT WALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXT WALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXT WALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXT WALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXTWALLOFTEXT it just makes things easier on the eye.
Tick Posted March 18, 2009 Report Posted March 18, 2009 To be completley honest.. I think its fine the way it is, there are waaaay worse things to be looked at / worked on than even talking about Whitesmith card... Lets work on classes first before we hit cards... But if you want to hit cards first... Atroce card please.
Evasive Posted March 18, 2009 Report Posted March 18, 2009 qq i can't argue with something i can barely read. rewrite or summarize what you wrote please..?
Pheone Posted March 18, 2009 Report Posted March 18, 2009 i don't recall ever "QQ"ing. but i did edit it so its easier on the eyes. I also had a perfectly reasonable thought for a compromise... Why not make it work like the horong, smokie, frilldora, and many other cards where it allows the use of Lvl 1 meltdown. It allows you to break weapons and armor at a significantly lower rate, it becomes a buff type skill so it must be kept turned on. and it becomes no different than those cards. it allows you to do something, but you have to be willing to spend the time to use it... make it fit an accessory just like the others. Its not stackable, its not nearly the rate it used to be. You want your sinx to break weapons and armor. use meltdown. I think thats fair, if it is at all possible. ok, now prove me wrong. /go!
Evasive Posted March 18, 2009 Report Posted March 18, 2009 qq Why not make it work like the horong, smokie, frilldora, and many other cards where it allows the use of Lvl 1 meltdown. It allows you to break weapons and armor at a significantly lower rate, it becomes a buff type skill so it must be kept turned on. and it becomes no different than those cards. it allows you to do something, but you have to be willing to spend the time to use it... make it fit an accessory just like the others. Its not stackable, its not nearly the rate it used to be. You want your sinx to break weapons and armor. use meltdown. I think thats fair, if it is at all possible. ok, now prove me wrong. because we have SK cards that freeze the enemy without us having to use Frost Joker. why not completely remove sk/marina card then so clowns/mage can be the only class that can freeze? or instead, make sk card give you Frost Joker instead? -yes it's on-topic and relevant to your topic, i'm saying what you're asking for, but with a different example. this suggestion is as ridiculous as 1h bows..
Kuyuti Posted March 18, 2009 Report Posted March 18, 2009 Evasive, I have stopped reading your posts but I noticed you said. this suggestion is as ridiculous as 1h bows.. Which is completely irrelevant because you are trying to build up a straw man against this argument which in the end just makes you look stupid, and while I'm sure you have some good arguments to present they are almost hard to see because they are surrounded by comments that make no sense and also the introduction of many fallacies into your argument make it a real eye bleed to read :/.
Evasive Posted March 18, 2009 Report Posted March 18, 2009 Evasive, I have stopped reading your posts but I noticed you said. Which is completely irrelevant because you are trying to build up a straw man against this argument which in the end just makes you look stupid, and while I'm sure you have some good arguments to present they are almost hard to see because they are surrounded by comments that make no sense and also the introduction of many fallacies into your argument make it a real eye bleed to read :/. you just don't know how to read. i mentioned that it's as ridiculous as 1h bows because it is. i purposely added that comment all the way down, separate from the "paragraph" because it's obviously not relevant to the topic, but it's a good comparison. doesn't take a genius to figure that one out. now now, quit making assumptions on my actions.
Armani Posted March 18, 2009 Report Posted March 18, 2009 WS at 1% 10 Hits = 10% Chance to Break (This takes less than 1 second) 100 hits = 100% Chance to Break (This takes less than 3-4 seconds) NERF IT!!! WHO CARES... Things will still break. Whether or not it needs to be nerfed. With the way we attack at 195 Attack Speed. Even a .01% chance from the Lord of Death Card coma comes as fast as 5-10 seconds.
Impulse Posted March 19, 2009 Report Posted March 19, 2009 not quiet, its a 1 in a 10,000 hit that coma will land for a .01% chance. average of getting coma'd is a few min, but theres always a probability of comaing in a few seconds.
Kuyuti Posted March 19, 2009 Report Posted March 19, 2009 Its because people use Blades which have a 1% chance. And Evasive no lol your arguments are still frail and full of fallacy
Pheone Posted March 19, 2009 Report Posted March 19, 2009 because we have SK cards that freeze the enemy without us having to use Frost Joker. why not completely remove sk/marina card then so clowns/mage can be the only class that can freeze? or instead, make sk card give you Frost Joker instead? -yes it's on-topic and relevant to your topic, i'm saying what you're asking for, but with a different example. this suggestion is as ridiculous as 1h bows.. Freeze, is a Status. Just like coma, stun. and half a dozen others. Each one wears off over a matter of time. A broken weapon will still be a broken weapon. You can go to sleep, go to work, and at the end of the day. Its still broken. There is weapons that on their own will break with a low chance. i think this is the only card that encourages breaking. So in the end its not like merchants will be the only one capable of breaking. it just requires a little more effort on someones part to break. I gotta be honest, im seeing apples and oranges at the moment.
Yeung Posted March 19, 2009 Report Posted March 19, 2009 WS at 1% 10 Hits = 10% Chance to Break (This takes less than 1 second) 100 hits = 100% Chance to Break (This takes less than 3-4 seconds) NERF IT!!! WHO CARES... Things will still break. Whether or not it needs to be nerfed. With the way we attack at 195 Attack Speed. Even a .01% chance from the Lord of Death Card coma comes as fast as 5-10 seconds. ..... No offense, but your logic is COMPLETELY WRONG. If Whitesmith was at 1%, there's a chance you wouldn't get a coma in 1000 hits. Though that's just an example, and highly unlikely. WS is fine. Everyone uses FCP nowadays anyways. Get with the times hippies~! D<<<
Evasive Posted March 19, 2009 Report Posted March 19, 2009 Freeze, is a Status. Just like coma, stun. and half a dozen others. Each one wears off over a matter of time. A broken weapon will still be a broken weapon. You can go to sleep, go to work, and at the end of the day. Its still broken. There is weapons that on their own will break with a low chance. i think this is the only card that encourages breaking. So in the end its not like merchants will be the only one capable of breaking. it just requires a little more effort on someones part to break. I gotta be honest, im seeing apples and oranges at the moment. freeze isn't a skill, nor is breaking an equipment a skill. you CAN break equipment and freeze through a skill, but in this manner, it's just a card. there's no card that keeps you in a permanent hide or cloak or under a permanent sight. you can counter ws better than you can counter strip. quit being lazy. kuyuti: if my arguments are so fail, why have you failed to prove me wrong or find an argument well enough to change my mind. quit making assumptions. and emoticons. ^^ :D :] o.O >.> <.< >.<
Kuyuti Posted March 19, 2009 Report Posted March 19, 2009 Well I personally can't change your mind, So I don't know what that has to do with anything, and I have proved you wrong plenty of times either that or I just ignored the argument you proposed because it was simply off subject. Oh and I stopped reading any of your big posts awhile back. So yes that would be why ^^ More face :D <(^.^<)(>^.^)>
