WS nerf

[Devotion]

i didn't read this part.. thank you devotion for quoting it in your comment.

incantation samurai card is abused as hell.

so is gr, deviling, tao gunka, orc lord, turtle general, LoD, goldenring sucks, valk, dragoon warlord, metaling, sinx card, phreeoni... so should we nerf them all because i've been defeated by people that use them?

why do people depend so much on the cards up there? oh wait, because they all help players create a strategy.

That was exactly my point. The minute someone says one thing is abuseable everything else is liable to be.

How about a compromise: reduce it to 2.5% chance. And before anyone says it's still too much, think about the point Evasive and I are making. You call one abuseable you call them all abuseable.

And to be quite blunt, a lot of these suggestions that are being made come from the fact that a group of players are unhappy by the effects of a card or class or skill being used against them.

[Aluxe]

all of the divest/dispell/coma/magnum brea/50def-50Mdef/+100 hit are in perfect balance and tell me if I missed any.

Every other card with a strategy function has a low chance of happening and even in that low chance it happens very often, the WS chance is certainty not a chance unlike every other card.

Its the only card wich havent sufered the effects of a nerf.

10% is the highest chance of all the strategy cards its just to much and its certain to happen.

[Hrist]

Its the only card wich havent sufered the effects of a nerf.

Do you want it to suffer from a nerf as well? Go ahead. I'll try to use something and make it overpowered in your eyes so that you'll request a nerf for it too.

[Evasive]

all of the divest/dispell/coma/magnum brea/50def-50Mdef/+100 hit are in perfect balance and tell me if I missed any.

Every other card with a strategy function has a low chance of happening and even in that low chance it happens very often, the WS chance is certainty not a chance unlike every other card.

Its the only card wich havent sufered the effects of a nerf.

10% is the highest chance of all the strategy cards its just to much and its certain to happen.

divest isn't in perfect balance against someone without fcp.

answer this, why do you want a nerf?

is it because your strategy is useless and ends with you dying all the time?

this entire suggestion is pointless, without fcp you cannot battle at all anyways, the only ways to prevent breakage are unbreakable equipments, cards that bestow the unbreakability to the equipments and fcp.

you have FAR more ways of countering ws than you would have to strip.

here's my suggestion to your suggestion: go ingame and do something about it since obviously crying won't do much.

if ws was sooooooooo impossible to counter, then why the hell are there people against it? we'd be annoyed too.

[Aluxe]

divest isn't in perfect balance against someone without fcp.

answer this, why do you want a nerf?

is it because your strategy is useless and ends with you dying all the time?

this entire suggestion is pointless, without fcp you cannot battle at all anyways, the only ways to prevent breakage are unbreakable equipments, cards that bestow the unbreakability to the equipments and fcp.

you have FAR more ways of countering ws than you would have to strip.

here's my suggestion to your suggestion: go ingame and do something about it since obviously crying won't do much.

if ws was sooooooooo impossible to counter, then why the hell are there people against it? we'd be annoyed too.

Like I said hardly someone can kill me on a one on one fight, If you want a duel go ahead kill feed me >:D

Divest its in balance because it takes a long while to divest someone unless you are a stalker with free cast of the skill, cards wich gives divest works at percentage and not on our own will.

Now shut the hell up if you are going to say the same over and over.

[» Pat]

cards wich gives divest works at percentage and not on our own will.

It's not just about the percentage. Factors that have influence on the stripping chance are:

Own dex

Own luk

Enemy's dex

Enemy's luk

Stripping percentage

[Aluxe]

exactly... there you said it.

Unlike that, WS chances are always the same.

[» Pat]

That's why you QQ?

[Evasive]

exactly... there you said it.

Unlike that, WS chances are always the same.

so?

incantation samurai penetrates defense for everyone.

you don't see anyone crying about that, now do you?

it's a strategic card too you know.

every card is.

why aren't you crying about stormy knight then?

[Kuyuti]

a⋅buse

   /v. əˈbyuz; n. əˈbyus/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [v. uh-byooz; n. uh-byoos] Show IPA verb, a⋅bused, a⋅bus⋅ing, noun

–verb (used with object)

1. to use wrongly or improperly; misuse: to abuse one's authority.

Thank you dictionary.com for the pretty definition of Abuse :). Now if we were to put Abuse into this context for Ws then the assumptio would be that the card its self is abusive; where as since this card was never ment to be an instant armor breaker it is being misused in a server with 195 ASPD. Which of course could apply to multiple other cards which is why I won't call this card abused.

Throwing in a red herring by sending us onto a path about how people will say other cards are abused is kind of pointless- Fortunately I have a bit of logic.

as i said, i've died to people using incantation samurai cards, should that card be nerfed? well, answer me.

>.>; You are really throwing this in here but it doesn't make sense? I'm not asking for a nerf because I have been simply beat by it - I'm asking for on for a case of balance and strategy -.-;. Incantation doesn't change the balance of the server at all and it simply is a strategic thing, like Thana card is :D. But WS you are garunteed a sure fire break if the user lacks FCP/RSX and this break will be in a few seconds which honestly there is No balance in that or is there no strategy in that :). So before you guys simply throw aside my argument and say I'm just accusing it of being abused then you are wrong. I'm acussing it of being imbalance. Tao was changed for a reason and I'm pretty sure this card could be altered as well.

I mean and Devotion is right even a 2.5% chance could make all the difference~ Those few seconds are anything a good battle and you guys know it :) and keep in my mind I'm considering a box less 1v1 dual- And honestly a lot of people don't really care if it gets a nerf or not, as Hrist said. <.<;

Oh and about SK: NO ONE USES IT LOL! (Or hardly anybody)

[*Kevin*]

So you are saying that people is abusing / using improperly WS because they break stuff with it ?

Don't make me laugh my ass out .

You say that people against ws are certainly dead without fcp/rsx/golem/cornutus/valk card/valk armor/elite weapons ?

And why , people against ppl with thana / inca ? If you dont have ygg , wont you die in 2secs too ?

Yggs cost time / qps as well as for fcp .

Many people use SK btw , and not only .

You and all the random account makers that vote Yes , are being so ridicolous that i will be laughing my ass out on you all if the poll will end in a no .

[Millenia]

Well, the poll won't get this thread anywhere since it isn't considered safe. Posts are, though.

[Evasive]

a⋅buse

   /v. əˈbyuz; n. əˈbyus/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [v. uh-byooz; n. uh-byoos] Show IPA verb, a⋅bused, a⋅bus⋅ing, noun

–verb (used with object)

1. to use wrongly or improperly; misuse: to abuse one's authority.

-

Oh and about SK: NO ONE USES IT LOL! (Or hardly anybody)

to use wrongly or improperly; we put it in a weapon and use it against the enemy in order to defeat them.

i don't see how it's being used wrongly or improperly there.

misuse; it is being used to defeat the opponent.

pvp's purpose is to defeat your opponent, i don't see how it's being misused.

to abuse one's authority; this isn't relevant to the situation.

i don't know but, you're using the word incorrectly. are you guys against the fact that people use the card correctly, obviously better than how you're using it then?

-

as for sk, you'd be surprised. tons of people use it because as soon as you ws, you can freeze your opponent if they are unprepared.

[Kuyuti]

This is why people need eyes >.>;

Thank you dictionary.com for the pretty definition of Abuse :). Now if we were to put Abuse into this context for Ws then the assumptio would be that the card its self is abusive; where as since this card was never ment to be an instant armor breaker it is being misused in a server with 195 ASPD. Which of course could apply to multiple other cards which is why I won't call this card ABUSED(LOOKIE THERE)

Thank you for taking your time to read and yes I know and a sinx could use 5 SKs witrh a WS and keep someone perma frozen! Well aware :) but I still don't seem to run into many people who use SK, maybe a champ every now and then- Which apparently maybe that card should be considered to =p.

Stop trying to divert the argument >.>; If you can't understand the argument or if you will try to change it then don't post -.-; I mean seriously either learn how to properly debate or get someone else to do it for you :) Maybe then we will get somewhere <.<;

[Icon]

hey hey ... does anyone remember me running around for months

with the party name 'I break stuff' ... aaah good times

nerf or not, ws/strip is in every GOOD pvp'rs arsenal ...

fcp is almost essential if you want to have any chance at real pvp'ing

i know it's not about fcp ...

ws broke my armor, I have more than 1

oh crap i got stripped ... warp away for 3 minutes

but if this actually happens I'd like to throw in my own bit of greed and

ask that it be tweeked to MY own needs ... only nerf WS for the

main classes (sin, paly, champ,w/e) and let my HW who actually relies on

breaking things keep the original percentage

[Kuyuti]

Or just simply add a penalty to the card >.>;

[Icon]

ohhhh that would be evil ....

Whitesmith Card -

10% chance to break weapon, 7% chance to break armor

10% chance for coma on user

/gg

[Kuyuti]

It would be lol!

[Pheone]

Alright i've read thru this, and from my point of view theres good points to both sides... no the people who made the LR servers didn't have 195 aspd where breaking armor happened in 2 secounds... but that is beside the point, the point is that here that card is easily abuseable... From bieng a battlesmith myself, i honestly think that the only people who should have the ability to break weapons and armor are WS's and Creators. because honestly thats the only way those classes have a reasonable edge against some of the other classes, take for exsample a pally vs a ws... the pally obiously has advantages in health and defence. whats the obious solution for someone who's attacking with a one handed weapon, who can't cloak and out manuver the pally. break his armor and weapon.

Now i understand all to well that every class wants to have an equal chance to pvp against any of the other classes. and thats just not going to happen on a server like this, toe to toe.

But please take into account, balance is important... im already annoyed enough that my Ws can't even pretend at an mvp. but bieng a WS. and having my armor broken by another class, at a higher % then my ws can do. well it takes the one advantage i may have, and i've really got nothing.

Please, do something about it, if nothing. to restore some sort of balance.

Pheo

[Hrist]

lol @ battlesmith.

There's another WS build aside from High STR and ability to melt stuff like butter on an oven?

And I'd like to point a few things out:

1. 195 ASPD, even if you reduce it to 1%, its still going to be like 100-10% and chances are, you're still going to cry about it.

2. There's no abuse in utilizing a perfectly good card (e.g : GTB). Its like GTB deserves to be nerfed too. We agreed not to though, since its just one card that literally takes out the fun of most mages in PvP if you get what I mean. 100% chance to own your ass if you're a magic user is way better than 10% to break your stuff.

PS: Its just a little comparison. Not trying to bring up GTB threads.

3. Things are going round and round without an end, like a broken record. You're not willing to listen to reason because you want one card nerfed so badly.

4. Personal gain. That simple. There's no such thing as 'strategy' and 'counter' in your vocabulary if you're so helpless with just one card.

5. WS is technically useless if you can't even get near your opponent since pro PvP is all about who kills the other fastest. Taking that into account, you'd die in PvP after your 3 seconds grace period.

6. Again, if you're that weak, don't drag other people down. Just because you can't cover your WS weakness doesn't mean others have to suffer for it.

7. Learn to play your game right ;D

8. This thread rises to another 2 pages of useless ramblings in less than 12 hours. Get over it.

9. I dare you to take the 90% of the entire PvP population in here and ask them if they care.

10. If they say yes, then nerf it. I don't really care less what happens to this card though.

11. No seriously, bring the PvP population here. They decide, not you alone.

Comprende?

[» Pat]

idc...

[Cirrus]

lol @ battlesmith.

9. I dare you to take the 90% of the entire PvP population in here and ask them if they care.

Ya dis. /ho

[Evasive]

This is why people need eyes >.>;

Thank you for taking your time to read and yes I know and a sinx could use 5 SKs witrh a WS and keep someone perma frozen! Well aware :) but I still don't seem to run into many people who use SK, maybe a champ every now and then- Which apparently maybe that card should be considered to =p.

Stop trying to divert the argument >.>; If you can't understand the argument or if you will try to change it then don't post -.-; I mean seriously either learn how to properly debate or get someone else to do it for you :) Maybe then we will get somewhere <.<;

i'm not diverting the argument and my arguments are entirely valid.

you obviously don't pvp against people that donate, now do you? mostly all of them use sk, freeze an enemy and use wind element scrolls and the enemy is as good as dead. you can't ws the equipment away however if the enemy has unbreakable equipment or fcp, so you can't sk unless the enemy is wsed. get the point?

this card isn't abused, it's being used properly since if people are going against the nerf, then it means that they know how to combat it and it doesn't hinder their gameplay so badly.

like i said, quit crying, go in-game, make an fcper and buy bottles and you're set. go hunt a ws card or two yourself and use them instead of crying about it.

[Kuyuti]

Evasive >.> Your argument may be valid but it is neither sound nor on topic :/ So please stop :D because obviously you still can't read after that ^^;. And trust me I'm not crying and yes I pvp against Donators, if you want to make a class for themselves :D.

Just and edit: I actually agree with what most of Hrist said XP- WS doesn't bother me because I don't go into a pvp room without FCP, yet I WoE w/o it sometimes ;^; but that is besides the point. I mean i know that people don't really care for it which is why maybe something should happen to it =p, maybe even like some retarded penalty like Hp-10% or something XP I mean yar!

[iRaw]

i'm not diverting the argument and my arguments are entirely valid.

you obviously don't pvp against people that donate, now do you? mostly all of them use sk, freeze an enemy and use wind element scrolls and the enemy is as good as dead. you can't ws the equipment away however if the enemy has unbreakable equipment or fcp, so you can't sk unless the enemy is wsed. get the point?

this card isn't abused, it's being used properly since if people are going against the nerf, then it means that they know how to combat it and it doesn't hinder their gameplay so badly.

like i said, quit crying, go in-game, make an fcper and buy bottles and you're set. go hunt a ws card or two yourself and use them instead of crying about it.

what are you talking about, only a real idiot go into pvp without freeze protection out of the armor (wich means no marc card), and unfortunaly there are many of those... freeze doesnt have anything to do and armor is not the only way to block neither the best or the most used = this has nothing to do.

@ Icon

yeah adding coma chance would be evil dont think about it xD, but making it break users armor would be decent as well (whitesmith buffs break own weapons by low chance).

And about priests,wizards and magic classes overal.... well If you fully rely on WS the... use 4 WS cards ._.