WS nerf

[Aluxe]

no need to flame, you dont need to atack people with whatever reason.

The point its not the people but the topic so make valid arguments to the topic and not the people ok =/

[gamersrule26]

ws would be useless if it 1%

[Evasive]

don't assume shit you don't know.

try contributing something to the topic instead of something offtopic. You're topics are full of shit all the time.

all they are are flame starters.

i've yet to go off-topic, everything is relevant to the ws "situation" from the story down to the coupons required to buy glistening coats to counter ws card.

assume stuff i don't know? you've provided enough evidence for me to make those statements against you. poor vocabulary, tons of swears, improper usage of the word hypocrite.

you need to do more of that yourself.

explain how? take action, don't talk action means that you should go in-game, start off another account, create an fcper, get glistening coats, get elites and cards that make your equipment unbreakable and use them, instead of coming to the forums, swearing and crying about the card. as you can see, the people that counter ws card are against this suggestion because they counter it due to its possibility.

so, everything else can be countered. and everything else is handy in certain situations

might as well return all the modifications to what it once was.

why rage about it now?

this is a high rate and we are debating whether or not if it shall be nerfed depending on the difficulty of countering it, it is easy to counter thus nerfing it would only destroy instead of improve.

and like what was said before, its not removing the entire card, its just lowring the chance activating by what, 5 seconds.

nerfing the card can have terrible consequences i don't think the staff will want to suffer, the slightest change can make the biggest mistakes.

and that edp matter is because even if EDP SEEMS overpowered with 195 attack speed and gravity didn't intend it, it shouldn't get a nerf or anything because that would just decrease their damage horrendously. i don't think its 200% anyways. but that's what i meant.

about your edp comment, if ws should be nerfed, then edp should be nerfed i mean damn, what should we fear more, our equipment breaking, or taking damage beyond 32,000 per second?

also amitsu, here's a little word since your great vocabulary isn't even acquainted with it:

ad hominem

–adjective

1. appealing to one's prejudices, emotions, or special interests rather than to one's intellect or reason.

2. attacking an opponent's character rather than answering his argument.

stop that & quit your flaming and using my posts as an excuse as to why to flame, release your fury somewhere offline

[Amitsu]

im just not going to read because its no longer worth my time. its just the same shit from you over and over why bother.

Same shit has happened before in one of the gayest servers ever. I'd rather not let this go on. Do whatever the hell you want.

[Evasive]

im just not going to read because its no longer worth my time. its just the same shit from you over and over why bother.

Same shit has happened before in one of the gayest servers ever. I'd rather not let this go on. Do whatever the hell you want.

thank you for the statement but it did not address mine or the thread.

[*Kevin*]

Starting from pointing out i don't know / care / like reading flames in polls like this Amitsu is generating , i have to repeat my point which is of many others too :

The ways to counter ws are ingame , there are many , they are there for you if you find them , so just stand up and go to find them instead of wanting it reduced/removed and let me make an example which probably was made ages ago too , but i am not a fAn of forums as i told you all :

Suppose you get killed by asura now what , you will whine that asura is op ,they must reduce their power to 50% because you can't spend 3 or 4 qps for a gr and its not fair that people kill you ?

So all that isnt free must be nerfed because some lazy guy cant stand and go to farm 5 qps ?

C'mon .. dont ruin the server , its fine ... quite fine as it is .

[Kuyuti]

I think all of you still fail to see the point of this -.-;. You guys are aware that not everyone can dualbox, right? Or are we just being ignorant about this? I think I will go with the second. I'm tired of hearing that "There are tons of ways to counter WS" ; In reality there are only two so let me break this apart and explain why this counters are easy to obtain for some, how the also support the idea that the effect should be nerfed: RSX, this card is cheap and protects your armor from breaking but yet it also takes up a card slot, read on before you stop here, this is a huge sacrifice to make when carding armor considering there are plenty of cards that need to be considered for PVP (Tao, Ghostring, Angeling ect.) so just simply angling this card into your armor will only protect you from WSers instead of everyone in general and smart people typically put the card to be the most versatile so most people won't put this unless they have multiple armors. Ok now let's talk about FCP- It is expensive to cast FCP but yet it is obviously the best defence when it comes to breaking/stripping armor but yet it requires someone with a Bio - whether it be a boxxed character or a friends character someone still has to be there, and guess what? Not everyone can dual box nor do they have other people so lets go ahead and close using outside sources which basically just leaves RSX as the main defence.

So like I said not that many people don't have RSX and most every melee or people planning on using WS having either max aspd (195) or Kiels for spammability(GS). Since everyone likes to mention that this "IS A HIGHRATE" I will too and take the fact that since this is a highrate the rules have changed and 7% is no longer a fair percentage it has no become a quite large percentage and would easily activate within the first few seconds of battle and would break the armor and then the fight is over. Now lets consider giving people who use WS a challenge by lowering to 1% because then it would be about 7-15 seconds until the armor break is initiated, which isn't a useless WS btw, these few extra seconds easily change the sway of the battle and make it more skill based rather than just one card determining the end of the fight.

Honestly when I dual people one vs. one I do not use FCP just to make the fight fair but most of the times I don't like dualing people with WS just because of how fast it activates- That being said I'm not asking for a huge nerf that would throw this card out of the game- I think it is a great strategic card its just you take the strategy out of it when you leave it at 7% because it is no longer how "Hopefully it will activiate" it is now "Ill just wait a few seconds until there armor is broken". I dispel plenty with 1% randgris and Coma tons with an Edge - I don't think 1-2% is something horrible to talk to.

Evasive: Please do not use logical terms that you got from some dictionary again because you just make yourself look like a fool.

Dreams: I will however agree being vulgar is one* thing but being abusive is another - I'd rather see this discussed than to simply see it get closed.

Kevin: What does Asura have to do with this? And this won't ruin the server unless you are unable to formulate a good fighting strategy :/.

I think I have made my point very clear and very valid so if you think you can counter that without explaining anything about FCP and RSX then I will be glad to keep going but if you can't then you have no real argument....

[*Kevin*]

As was said before , fcp and rsx ( that doesnt make your armor only invulnerable so its a usefull card and it doesnt waste a slot point . ) are only 2 of the ways , there are cheaper ways to protect your weapons/armors .

And everyone can dual unless you are playing with a commodore 64 , which i doubt so .

And you can always log second char to fcp and then exit the second client so it doesn't make your ro go numb .

There are tons if not billions of ways to counter ws , just stand up , go find them , make of them your priority and stop trying to ruin the server :) .

[Kuyuti]

This won't ruin the server >.> You are contradicting yourself you know that right? If WS is so easy to counter than why would people use it? Then why would a nerf be so bad? Actually lets go ahead and leave the whole "Countering" Issue out of this because simply being said if someone has FCP/RSX then they won't even be effected by this card at all so let's just drop that issue completely - because even if it gets nerfed or if it doesnt than this won't effect it.

I'm trying people to get more focused on why it should be nerfed instead of how it can be countered. You need to think more of on terms of a battle without FCP and RSX to clearly see if the nerf is necessary or not, Saying that is counterable doesn't support the fact that it should be nerfed nor does is it against it- Its just naming something that isn't valid to the argument(Unless we claimed to remove the card, which we aren't). So please let's drop the whole "It is counterable" argument since it won't lead anywhere and tell me why you think 7% is a small number :) ^^

[Hrist]

Just because you can't win from it doesn't mean you have to drag people down as well. Tell you what, if you won't accept the FCP / RSX/ Valk R suggestion because not everyone can have those, then I'll tell you something that is easier to obtain.

Get friends. Easy to obtain and always free. 100% available (if they're online of course) and not by chance. If you can't dual client then I'm sure they can. Seriously, Armani is right. Everything here is easy to obtain even for a lazy person. Its not our fault that you don't want to strive for strength. WS is not a strategy, but an option which becomes part of a certain strategy in the process. I used to believe that RO can be dominated by just one person. Eventually, reality hit me back on the face and hard. Associate yourself with friends that can FCP you or at least defend you since you're so darn helpless to one card. (I survived a whole year thanks to Bumpie and his FCPer).

ws would be useless if it 1%

My mailbreaker is at .01% and the chances of me breaking your armor is still very high. Although I never really use it unless I wanted to annoy people.

And honestly, the only probable argument that you'll ever accept is "OKAY LETS NERF WS CUZ ITS SO OP AND NAB".

That's hardly ever an argument at all though.

[*Kevin*]

I am not contraddicting myself at all , read slightly more what i wrote .

Ragnarok online is BASED on countering your enemy's actions , NO more NO less .

If your enemy uses asura , you wear gr .

If your enemy uses ele , you wear angeling ( beware of cursed waters ) .

If your enemy uses sacrifice , you wear gr .

If your enemy uses coma , you wear gtb .

If your enemy uses magics , you wear gtb ( sometimes is no needed , but the point stays ) .

If your enemy full divest you , you get a fcp .

If your enemy uses ws , you ..................................................... or fcp .

Nerfing the right game style only to stand to people who doesnt want to work to improve their pvp abilities , will just ruin the game .

Guess what , i rarely uses ws or such , though i nearly always win against ws users after i build the right strategy , which isnt using ws also because is boring , i prefer action .

And trust me , the best and most skilled players on this server , dont use ws and they would own ws users in 1 sec in anycase .

[Kuyuti]

That would be what reading is for Hrist :/ apparently the argument is a little more clear cut than that and I simply said lets drop the whole FCP issue ect. Because with FCP it makes both the "Nerfed" version of WS useless and the original useless so that really gets us no where in this argument. so please if you can come up with a valid argument of why WS should not be lowered without mentioning any ways of completely nulling the effects of the card please tell me :)

[*Kevin*]

Gtb complete nullifies coma , but is it going to be nerfed ? No .

Gtb complete nullifies magic , but is it going to be nerfed ? No .

Anti asura equips nullifies asura / sacrificie , but are they going to be nerfed ? No .

Fcp , rsx , golem , cornutus , valk , valk armor , elite weapons completely nullifies ws , and so ?

Ragnarok is based on countering your enemy action , if your enemy tries to ws you , you dont go to your mom and cry QQ HE BROKE MY EQUIP QQ , you stand up and get your strategy to counter it .

Stop repeating yourself , you are making me repeat myself too , and i dont like it .

[Kuyuti]

Kevin you still fail to realise what I'm saying, actually I don't even know what you are saying lol. I will continue repeating myself until somebody can give me a formidable argument as to why it should be nerfed. If you use FCP or RSX as a defence you are just arguing the usefulness of the card- This isn't a rant section or a cry section this is a suggestion about lowering the rate of occurrence and with FCP/ RSX the rate of occurrence doesn't matter so then why are you even trying to debate here :/? Just simply put tell me why the rate should not be lower and don't tell me how I can counter the card all together because I'm not dumb -.-;

So please Kevin if you can't make a constructive point to this argument then don't repeat yourself because I'm tired of reading something that doesn't prove or disprove anything ^^

[Hrist]

My valid argument is:

Nobody gives a fuck.

100% proven and avoids redundancy.

Don't take out FCP in the topic because its a very valid argument (ohoho, internet argument +1) and not to mention the only plausible thing that will make everyone shut up. We gave you suggestions and we even told you to go ahead and effing nerf it.

Don't be lazy and do something about your weaknesses. We all did and we'd hate to be dragged down just because someone QQ'ed about it in the forums.

EDIT: I noticed that you ONLY wanted a suggestion TO WHY WE SHOULD NERF WS. Here's mine:

GO AHEAD and nerf it, do it. Duel me after and I'll drop you in less than 5 minutes. If I don't lag, it'll be the shortest 3 minutes of your life. And guess what, I won't even WS you. ;D

[*Kevin*]

The only *good* reason that you should want for WS being nerfed is to prevent furter QQ by ppl owned by it .

Other reasonable reasons ... 0 .

[Cirrus]

...and with FCP/ RSX the rate of occurrence doesn't matter...

This is exactly what people were saying...

Seriously, I'm on a shit computer. Dual clienting takes like 1-2 minutes (that's how much it lags the computer), but I do it, just to prevent WS. 7% or 1%, prevention is and always be the best way.

On a side note, FCP isn't expensive... nor is hard to get. Getting a bio on another account is easy as well, it doesn't even have to be 255. I'm as lazy as fuck farming items, the most I can do of any is 30 minutes. But I will spend that 30 minutes making a hundred glist coats.

And okay, why the rate shouldn't be lower? 1% will still get you WS'd. Either now or a few seconds later, any player who wants an upper hand would want to prevent that rather than thinking "I hope I don't get 1% WS'd." Now I know that's the point, 7% -> 1% can save you a few seconds, but what's the point if it's still gonna happen, just don't let it happen.

[Millenia]

This is exactly what people were saying...

Seriously, I'm on a shit computer. Dual clienting takes like 1-2 minutes (that's how much it lags the computer), but I do it, just to prevent WS. 7% or 1%, prevention is and always be the best way.

On a side note, FCP isn't expensive... nor is hard to get. Getting a bio on another account is easy as well, it doesn't even have to be 255. I'm as lazy as fuck farming items, the most I can do of any is 30 minutes. But I will spend that 30 minutes making a hundred glist coats.

And okay, why the rate shouldn't be lower? 1% will still get you WS'd. Either now or a few seconds later, any player who wants an upper hand would want to prevent that rather than thinking "I hope I don't get 1% WS'd." Now I know that's the point, 7% -> 1% can save you a few seconds, but what's the point if it's still gonna happen, just don't let it happen.

Listen to this good sir.

[Evasive]

if people can't dual account, then they could just ask someone else for an fcp...

you know what's worse than breaking anyways? strip.

strip can actually remove unbreakable equipment if you don't have an fcp.

don't tell me you want strip absolutely removed from the game? seriously, quit complaining about ws, like shit, if you don't have fcp, you're still royally fucked by metaling, wickenbe tres, dragoon warlord, those strip hats and stalkers.

with that, i can expect an argument here.

[Aluxe]

Gtb complete nullifies coma , but is it going to be nerfed ? No .

Gtb complete nullifies magic , but is it going to be nerfed ? No .

Anti asura equips nullifies asura / sacrificie , but are they going to be nerfed ? No .

Fcp , rsx , golem , cornutus , valk , valk armor , elite weapons completely nullifies ws , and so ?

Ragnarok is based on countering your enemy action , if your enemy tries to ws you , you dont go to your mom and cry QQ HE BROKE MY EQUIP QQ , you stand up and get your strategy to counter it .

Stop repeating yourself , you are making me repeat myself too , and i dont like it .

1-Coma has a 0.01% chance no need to nerf

2-there was a poll to wether nerf or not gtb and the "not" won by one vote

3-Devilings were nerfed from 40% to 30% due to the fact that Neutral element becomes 0 (yes I was by the moments it was 40%)

4-Now the time for WS has come.

-dont worry the price wont drop, why?: because the effect stacks so= 4ws= more chances

-Yes you will still get your equipment broke eventually, but you will have enough time to fight back and its your choice wether you want to stay on range and get ws'd or back out and change strategy.

Just like Kuyuti says dont close your mind and say the same shit over and over =/, this is not a "how to counter Ws" topic, its about giving reasons to why it should and why it shoulnt be nerfed.

[Evasive]

1-Coma has a 0.01% chance no need to nerf

2-there was a poll to wether nerf or not gtb and the "not" won by one vote

3-Devilings were nerfed from 40% to 30% due to the fact that Neutral element becomes 0 (yes I was by the moments it was 40%)

4-Now the time for WS has come.

-dont worry the price wont drop, why?: because the effect stacks so= 4ws= more chances

-Yes you will still get your equipment broke eventually, but you will have enough time to fight back and its your choice wether you want to stay on range and get ws'd or back out and change strategy.

Just like Kuyuti says dont close your mind and say the same shit over and over =/, this is not a "how to counter Ws" topic, its about giving reasons to why it should and why it shoulnt.

why it shouldn't be nerfed? because regardless, you will have your stuff broken anyways and if you don't have fcp or want the chances reduced so you won't need fcp, then you have to worry about stuff being stripped, so regardless of the matter, you need fcp to pvp, weapons will have to change and make people carry more of them and so less yggs which will make battles shorter and boring.

how to counter ws is an incredibly valid argument since if this is sooooo easy to counter, then i don't see a point in nerfing. strip is harder to counter than ws, think about that instead.

as kevin said, ro is based on countering your enemy's attacks and using your own to defeat them, strategic in a way. if you can't find a way around a problem, then you simply lose. no need to complain about it but try harder next time.

[Aluxe]

that can be use as a reason for a Nerf too, people who are fully reliant in WS just wait until FCP runs out and then atack knowing they have 100% chance of winning against someone who is reliant on armors (most classes who are able to survive that much in LMS are armor reliant classes).

dont point that reason out anymore, up to now you have used 3 reasons out of your "millions" and we have much more arguments to our casue so if you dont get any other argument then dont say anything else ok?

Also something weird is that only 4 people up to now have said word against it and we have a hell lot of votes.

Please say your opinions as well when you vote =/.

[Evasive]

that can be use as a reason for a Nerf too, people who are fully reliant in WS just wait until FCP runs out and then atack knowing they have 100% chance of winning against someone who is reliant on armors (most classes who are able to survive that much in LMS are armor reliant classes).

dont point that reason out anymore, up to now you have used 3 reasons out of your "millions" and we have much more arguments to our casue so if you dont get any other argument then dont say anything else ok?

Also something weird is that only 4 people up to now have said word against it and we have a hell lot of votes.

Please say your opinions as well when you vote =/.

you're incorrect.

someone who's fully reliant on armors will obviously carry more than 1 and nonetheless more than 1 unbreakable armors.

ws breaks, it doesn't strip.

fcp is a requirement to battle, no matter how you put it you need it. without fcp, you can have your equipments stripped which is worse than breakage since strip also removes your shield and helmet, while only the gypsy/clown class can break helmets and shields.

your arguments are not strong enough since you forget the point that whether this is nerfed or not, there will be more obstacles that will make any battle require fcp.

don't point out reasons anymore? why? who the hell are you? a gm? a moderator? or do you fear that i'm correct.

one question, what's the point in nerfing this?

[» Pat]

I never FCP myself.... THERE. I SAID IT.

I can't remember the last time I've been stripped / got something broken.

[Evasive]

I never FCP myself.... THERE. I SAID IT.

I can't remember the last time I've been stripped / got something broken.

i'll change that ;]

go in-game