Tao Card

[Forum~]

FROM http://forum.forsaken-ro.net/index.php?showtopic=20228

In short, it seems like we're re-doing the tao card effect from scratch except now we have prior knowledge on how these changes can affect in-game PvP. Here are my thoughts on what the new bonuses should be:

1. Gypsy/Bard - 60%

2. Stalker - 60%

3. Professor/Wizard - 70%

4. Gunslinger - 60%

5. Star Gladiator - 70%

6. Super Novice Max HP + 70,000 and 90% not sure how this works out since I've never played Super Novice with the new (not-so-new) weapon.

Although the above stated changes are lower than the bugged tao card effect, they are still higher than the default 50% so I don't think there is any need to complain.

inb4 y stalker/gs get so low?

Because stalker can play efficiently with full reductions so more HP is the last thing they need. Plus, stalkers by default have a high HP modifier. GS should be what we call "glass cannons". They've been given shields lowering their mortality rate considerably in PvP. I don't think they need more HP than they already have so 60% is a good fit.

inb4 y prof/wiz get lowered?

My professor right now can tank a thana, aloevera 'voked full asura (without guild buffs) (me wearing fluffy wings, energy coat, gr, 2x rays, fshield, usako). I'm sure wizard is more or less the same. Plus, we have safety wall and energy coat so stop QQing.

inb4 y clown/gypsy lower too?

meng idk, they got freakin' tarot. Pretty much impossible to beat 1v1 'cause of that usako/gtb dilemma.

inb4 y SG get BAFF??

'cause no one plays them and maybe this will create an incentive? The 60% to 70% HP boost for this almost nonexistent class shouldn't be overlooked.

Edited August 4, 2011 by Forum~

[Genesis]

For those wondering, here are the effects prior to the fix:

1. Gypsy/Bard - 80%

2. Stalker - 80%

3. Professor/Wizard - 90%

4. Gunslinger - 90%

5. Star Gladiator - 60%

6. Super Novice Max HP + 70,000 and 90%

@Forum~ Super Novices are a joke, I wouldn't worry too much about that.

[BlaCkCatXIII]

GM genesis is 90 % of effect of tao gunca in GunSlinger :biggrin:

Tengu Mask and Necromancer Hood Effects:

All Stats + 10

[ Gunslinger ]

Max HP + 20% Mdef + 20 Dex + 20

[ + Forsaken Gunslinger Pistols ]

Receive 40% less damage from Demihumans.

+frigg King shield

-25% Damage

+ usakoring Card

-35%Damage

i dunno im just a newbie but i like to be a gunslinger if i have this items heheeheeh

[Forum~]

GM genesis is 90 % of effect of tao gunca in GunSlinger :biggrin:

Tengu Mask and Necromancer Hood Effects:

All Stats + 10

[ Gunslinger ]

Max HP + 20% Mdef + 20 Dex + 20

[ + Forsaken Gunslinger Pistols ]

Receive 40% less damage from Demihumans.

+frigg King shield

-25% Damage

+ usakoring Card

-35%Damage

i dunno im just a newbie but i like to be a gunslinger if i have this items heheeheeh

The Tengu Mask and Necromancer Hood reduction effects only apply with the Forsaken Gunslinger Elite Pistols, a 2-handed gun, which prevents the use of a shield.

[TensaZangetsu]

why doesnt sinx get a hp boost =o? they take one of the most damage in game going 2 handed, i think they deserve a hp boost too..

[Genesis]

I think most people were against that because SinX does so much damage as it stands.

[Halion]

back slide nd cloak ftw, i use 230k and still tank a whole guild in war of emperium :p

[xXxJCxXx]

why doesnt sinx get a hp boost =o? they take one of the most damage in game going 2 handed, i think they deserve a hp boost too..

I couldn't agree with you more.

back slide nd cloak ftw, i use 230k and still tank a whole guild in war of emperium :p

Back slide and cloak i would agree but i still think that sinx deserves an HP Boost. 230k and tank a whole guild is ok because WOE has reduced damage.

Maybe what we could do is modify Tao Gunka effect if sinx wore no shield. Just my opinion.

[Xtopher]

FROM http://forum.forsaken-ro.net/index.php?showtopic=20228

4. Gunslinger - 60%

5. Star Gladiator - 70%

inb4 y stalker/gs get so low?

Because stalker can play efficiently with full reductions so more HP is the last thing they need. Plus, stalkers by default have a high HP modifier. GS should be what we call "glass cannons". They've been given shields lowering their mortality rate considerably in PvP. I don't think they need more HP than they already have so 60% is a good fit.

I think we gave up on the "glass cannon" thing the minute they were given a 1 hand gun. GS should be taken back to 90%. Their downfall is that they can't hold many berries... Holding very little berries and having super low hp kinda makes them pointless imo... their damage output isn't THAT amazing.

[Seraphine]

Honestly in my opinion Gunslingers have became a quite powerful class,they do quite massive damage outputs,and also have a 1 handed gun.Not saying they don't deserve any buffs but probably giving them 70% on Hp with Tao Gunka card is good or somewhere around there.

[Xtopher]

Honestly in my opinion Gunslingers have became a quite powerful class,they do quite massive damage outputs,and also have a 1 handed gun.Not saying they don't deserve any buffs but probably giving them 70% on Hp with Tao Gunka card is good or somewhere around there.

Gunslinger damage output only peaks high with guild buffs. Without them its pretty easy to out survive a GS unless you're stupid. Stay out of despo, switch between holy armor and such and get an anti-arrow accessory. They're easily beatable, people just haven't tried enough yet.

The only class that I think shouldn't be put back the way it was is sniper. They weren't really "OP" but there was no reason for how much HP they had.

[BlaCkCatXIII]

when is the implementation of the tao effect.. is it already in the game? the 80% for stalker

ill think ill go back to being stalker or create a gunner.... having bard/gypsy and gunslinger and stalker more hp boost.. means my assassin gonna be weaker than ever..

SiN -X only got 30% Vs 80 or 90% is still huge hp and they are long range ^.^

[Xtopher]

when is the implementation of the tao effect.. is it already in the game? the 80% for stalker

ill think ill go back to being stalker or create a gunner.... having bard/gypsy and gunslinger and stalker more hp boost.. means my assassin gonna be weaker than ever..

SiN -X only got 30% Vs 80 or 90% is still huge hp and they are long range ^.^

SinX will/does still have more hp per vit capacity than the dex based classes.

[BlaCkCatXIII]

i read the form in suggestion i think that they gonna make the gunslinger elite gun 1 handed that means this:

Tengu Mask and Necromancer Hood Effects:

All Stats + 10

[ Gunslinger ]

Max HP + 20% Mdef + 20 Dex + 20

[ + Forsaken Gunslinger Pistols ]

Receive 40% less damage from Demihumans.

+frigg King shield

-25% Damage

+ usakoring Card

-35%Damage

total Wall defense

[xXxJCxXx]

i read the form in suggestion i think that they gonna make the gunslinger elite gun 1 handed that means this:

Tengu Mask and Necromancer Hood Effects:

All Stats + 10

[ Gunslinger ]

Max HP + 20% Mdef + 20 Dex + 20

[ + Forsaken Gunslinger Pistols ]

Receive 40% less damage from Demihumans.

+frigg King shield

-25% Damage

+ usakoring Card

-35%Damage

total Wall defense

I think they will not implement it as it is. ^_^

[TensaZangetsu]

i don't see why sinx shouldn't get the same benefit, since they do sacrifice a shield for damage and its a constant flow of damage where its easy to ygg against, not like SB and AV where its a burst of random high powered damage. i think they should get a tad bit hp boost maybe like 55% or 60%?

[Xtopher]

i don't see why sinx shouldn't get the same benefit, since they do sacrifice a shield for damage and its a constant flow of damage where its easy to ygg against, not like SB and AV where its a burst of random high powered damage. i think they should get a tad bit hp boost maybe like 55% or 60%?

They can get enough hp as is. You yourself can tank full asura with thana and guild buffs on your assassin. Hell I've seen you tank 2x atk asura pretty easily. With tao/assassin dagger/ vit belts/ 2x firelocks/skolls along with fking set and emp your hp will be ridiculously high.

Whats more, assassin has EDP which is the highest damage buff in the game... Sinx DOES have a huge burst damage skill... Ever heard of sonic blow? Sonic does way more than vulcan arrow... plus you have hide/cloak/backslide for evasionary techniques, why would you need to tank as well?

[Bishop]

I actually liked all the prior effects before the bugfix. However I think it's funny that a supposed to be tanky class (merchant class) gets the tiny 30% boost. While a class which is indeed supposed to be a "glass cannon" would get a 60% (or even 90% during the bug xD) hp boost.

[NikkiLee69666]

i read the form in suggestion i think that they gonna make the gunslinger elite gun 1 handed that means this:

Tengu Mask and Necromancer Hood Effects:

All Stats + 10

[ Gunslinger ]

Max HP + 20% Mdef + 20 Dex + 20

[ + Forsaken Gunslinger Pistols ]

Receive 40% less damage from Demihumans.

+frigg King shield

-25% Damage

+ usakoring Card

-35%Damage

total Wall defense

They will most likely either Null the Necromancer Hood's effect or reduce it. But they will be making the Elite Gun 1-Handed in the next update.

[Forum~]

I think we gave up on the "glass cannon" thing the minute they were given a 1 hand gun. GS should be taken back to 90%. Their downfall is that they can't hold many berries... Holding very little berries and having super low hp kinda makes them pointless imo... their damage output isn't THAT amazing.

Honestly in my opinion Gunslingers have became a quite powerful class,they do quite massive damage outputs,and also have a 1 handed gun.Not saying they don't deserve any buffs but probably giving them 70% on Hp with Tao Gunka card is good or somewhere around there.

I don't think a 90% HP modifier is appropriate either. If anything, a compromise of a 70% HP modifier sounds fine with me. Chris, why not make a separate suggestion for having a weight limit increase on the new gun?

when is the implementation of the tao effect.. is it already in the game? the 80% for stalker

ill think ill go back to being stalker or create a gunner.... having bard/gypsy and gunslinger and stalker more hp boost.. means my assassin gonna be weaker than ever..

SiN -X only got 30% Vs 80 or 90% is still huge hp and they are long range ^.^

SinX will/does still have more hp per vit capacity than the dex based classes.

I bet my assassin can take out 95% of all bard, gypsies, gunslingers and stalkers in the server. They're not a weak class at all if you have the ability to mix up and use katar and dagger correctly.

Assassins have high HP, a high damage output, and can carry a ton of berries so I don't agree on giving them any more HP than they already have.

Tengu Mask and Necromancer Hood Effects:

All Stats + 10

[ Gunslinger ]

Max HP + 20% Mdef + 20 Dex + 20

[ + Forsaken Gunslinger Pistols ]

Receive 40% less damage from Demihumans.

+frigg King shield

-25% Damage

+ usakoring Card

-35%Damage

total Wall defense

Thanks for pointing this out so GM's can modify this before implementing it into the server.

i don't see why sinx shouldn't get the same benefit, since they do sacrifice a shield for damage and its a constant flow of damage where its easy to ygg against, not like SB and AV where its a burst of random high powered damage. i think they should get a tad bit hp boost maybe like 55% or 60%?

You just destroyed your argument. Sacrificing a shield for damage logically makes sense. SB is an assassin skill, which can also do "a burst of random high powered damage". They also have an easy buff they can apply to themselves, soul link, which further increases SB's "burst of random high powered damage", unlike AV. I disagree with giving assassins a new HP modifier.

They can get enough hp as is. You yourself can tank full asura with thana and guild buffs on your assassin. Hell I've seen you tank 2x atk asura pretty easily. With tao/assassin dagger/ vit belts/ 2x firelocks/skolls along with fking set and emp your hp will be ridiculously high.

Whats more, assassin has EDP which is the highest damage buff in the game... Sinx DOES have a huge burst damage skill... Ever heard of sonic blow? Sonic does way more than vulcan arrow... plus you have hide/cloak/backslide for evasionary techniques, why would you need to tank as well?

Agreed. No need for more HP when they have so much potential already.

[TensaZangetsu]

They can get enough hp as is. You yourself can tank full asura with thana and guild buffs on your assassin. Hell I've seen you tank 2x atk asura pretty easily. With tao/assassin dagger/ vit belts/ 2x firelocks/skolls along with fking set and emp your hp will be ridiculously high.

Whats more, assassin has EDP which is the highest damage buff in the game... Sinx DOES have a huge burst damage skill... Ever heard of sonic blow? Sonic does way more than vulcan arrow... plus you have hide/cloak/backslide for evasionary techniques, why would you need to tank as well?

well that wouldn't be fair to say i could tank full asura with guild build and everything, but then again not everyone get's random invitation to bravery and i tweak my stats every time i fight owl baron users. The only reason i've tank your 2x atk asura that one time i've told you to asura me was cause i'd had 300 vit and 0 str with complete full reductions, so basically i was a sitting duck, so that cancel out everything you just said.

yea we have sonic blow but that's sacrificing a SHIELD unlike AV, even with all those maneuver skills you'll still eventually get hit, i mean come on we can't do every. be real with me in the past 2-3 weeks when did you see someone use ONLY but sb for there prime fighting skill, its always daggers and sb ethier the to or i've seen this one person who always use shield and sb but no daggers but it was fail. this doesn't just go out for me but all the noobies players that can't afford to be hybrid build. ohhhhh doesn't like every class has range now? ROFL. maybe what you said would of worked like 2 years ago, but not now, man so much change. so yes i still stand on sinx should get a TAD BIT hp boost not some monstrous increase.

@Forum~

"You just destroyed your argument. Sacrificing a shield for damage logically makes sense. SB is an assassin skill, which can also do "a burst of random high powered damage". They also have an easy buff they can apply to themselves, soul link, which further increases SB's "burst of random high powered damage", unlike AV. I disagree with giving assassins a new HP modifier."

im not here to try to win and argument no matter if im wrong or right im only here to give my opinion on that matter and try to improve the server.

Edited August 6, 2011 by TensaZangetsu

[Forum~]

What the, I don't even... (please check your grammar and spelling before posting; it's hard to understand some of the ideas you're trying to convey). I will try to decipher your post.

be real with me in the past 2-3 weeks when did you see someone use ONLY but sb for there prime fighting skill

Only randoming-full buff-sb-noob assassin crosses do this. Good assassin crosses switch off between katar, dagger and shield to maximize their PvP potential.

its always daggers and sb ethier the to or i've seen this one person who always use shield and sb but no daggers but it was fail.

alsdjfkljaslkfjlkadjl. The ability to switch off between two styles of fighting is a good thing, in other words, a bonus for this class. Assassin crosses can go for bursts of high damage or go for a stream of consistent high damage. I don't see how you're trying to build an argument on this. Switching to shield after sb is rather a smart technique to minimize the damage taken. Don't judge playing styles and builds based on only one player. You need to look at a sample size of a wide variety of assassin cross players to come to a conclusion.

this doesn't just go out for me but all the noobies players that can't afford to be hybrid build. ohhhhh doesn't like every class has range now? ROFL.

I don't quite understand what you're saying here but being a hybrid is a choice (Plus these days, hybrid builds are the norm. It's more strange seeing someone specialize in only one form of fighting... "OHEH, PUREASURABUILD, oshit, devs. @go 25"). Being able to play certain builds should be limited to those who can afford it. Those who have money should get what they choose to have. If you don't have it presently, then you should have to work to get it. In other words, noobies should work for their build, not be given it to them freely.

...And uh, Assassin crosses can hide and grimtooth. I don't feel like understanding the context of where that came from but if what you were trying to say was that assassin crosses must walk towards ranged classes in order to engage in combat, they can easily cloak, backslide towards them, or range them themselves with grimtooth.

im not here to try to win and argument no matter if im wrong or right im only here to give my opinion on that matter and try to improve the server.

There is no right or wrong in here but in theory, the one who wins the argument is naturally the one who improves the server (is more right) because the GMs see that opinion as more beneficial than the other. I believe that we're all trying to win with our arguments here. If one has no drive to win with their argument, then that simply demonstrates a lack of effort in one's ideas. Thus in turn, one shouldn't give their opinions here because they will only hinder our progress.

tl;dr, every post should be a well thought out post able to be considered for approval.

Let's go back on-topic and discuss tao card effect changes for primarily these classes: Clown/Gypsy, Stalker, Professor/Wizard, Gunslinger, and Star Gladiator.

Edited August 6, 2011 by Forum~

[TensaZangetsu]

rofl, everything is being type on a iphone at this very moment and its pretty bad, but not so bad that it isn't readable. I'm not getting into this again with you, respect my decision and leave it at that. NGA DREW

[Kittie]

i read the form in suggestion i think that they gonna make the gunslinger elite gun 1 handed that means this:

Tengu Mask and Necromancer Hood Effects:

All Stats + 10

[ Gunslinger ]

Max HP + 20% Mdef + 20 Dex + 20

[ + Forsaken Gunslinger Pistols ]

Receive 40% less damage from Demihumans.

+frigg King shield

-25% Damage

+ usakoring Card

-35%Damage

total Wall defense

Tengu and Necromancer Hood effect has already been nerfed. The effects don't stack with the new one-handed Valkyrie gun, and the Forsaken Gunslinger Pistols are two-handed, so you can't wear a Friggs Shield with Usakoring on it.

BTW, where's the Sniper HP bonus? Is it going to be the same as stalker?

Assassins getting an HP bonus? Jesus Christ that's an insane suggestion. Assassins already do a high enough DPS right now by just using one weapon, and one shield. When they go double-handed, their damage is quite high, and they can backslide and cloak away from danger. It's a handoff good assassin players accept in order to get high burst damage. I wouldn't change that.

I would bring every class back to the same amount except for:

Stalker/Sniper - 60% (I agree with that; Stalkers have high reduction and had really high HP)

Gunslinger - 60% (Agreed, since the new Valk weapon changed their durability, and damage output)

The other classes I would leave the same as before.

Edited August 10, 2011 by Kittie

[Seraphine]

Tengu and Necromancer Hood effect has already been nerfed. The effects don't stack with the new one-handed Valkyrie gun, and the Forsaken Gunslinger Pistols are two-handed, so you can't wear a Friggs Shield with Usakoring on it.

BTW, where's the Sniper HP bonus? Is it going to be the same as stalker?

Assassins getting an HP bonus? Jesus Christ that's an insane suggestion. Assassins already do a high enough DPS right now by just using one weapon, and one shield. When they go double-handed, their damage is quite high, and they can backslide and cloak away from danger. It's a handoff good assassin players accept in order to get high burst damage. I wouldn't change that.

I would bring every class back to the same amount except for:

Stalker/Sniper - 60% (I agree with that; Stalkers have high reduction and had really high HP)

Gunslinger - 60% (Agreed, since the new Valk weapon changed their durability, and damage output)

The other classes I would leave the same as before.

That sounds reasonable to me.+1